Pan and SLRN score files - The difference?

[Bob the Burger-Builder]

Pan is supposed to be able to use SLRN scorefiles. While this may be true
if auto-generated scores are transfered, I've found that custom score
files tend to crash and burn, or just do nothing.

The reason why took me some time to dig/figure out. Pan and SLRN use
different interpreters or something, slang/pcre/? and while the
standard auto-generated score file from SLRN MAY be read successfully by
Pan, its a matter of luck if it works at all as the syntax for the two
application's is disarmingly similar but different.

This could be why Pan only scores on a simpler set of criteria that the
more complex and customisable SLRN. It is also why Pan just quietly
ignores a whole scorefile if one detail is not to it's liking, a highly
likely event judging by the number of posts I've skimmed through by folks
trying to figure out why Pan doesn't use SLRN scorefiles as legend would
have it.

So, onto my question. (At last!)

Does anybody have any info regarding the syntax required to construct
scorefiles for *Pan*?

I have a selection of scorefiles for SLRN, but need to "convert" the data
within them to make sure it does indeed work as Pan requires.

Help! 8(

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on Thu, 03 May 2007 11:39:50 GMT, Bob the

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
Pan is supposed to be able to use SLRN scorefiles. While this may be true
if auto-generated scores are transfered, I've found that custom score
files tend to crash and burn, or just do nothing.

Auto-generated scorefiles rarely contain anything complicated.

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
The reason why took me some time to dig/figure out. Pan and SLRN use
different interpreters or something, slang/pcre/?

Yes. S-Lang regular expressions use a different syntax from PCRE, and
complicated examples may be incompatible. Here's a highly artificial
example with whitespace added for clarity:

S-Lang: \C \< \( \d\d\d \) \1 \c Z \>
PCRE: (?i) \b ( \d{3} ) \1 {?-i} Z \b

Both these expressions match a "word" of six digits and an uppercase Z
in which digits 4-6 are the same as digits 1-3, such as "123123Z", but
neither will work in the wrong language. So if you have anything in
your Slrn scorefile that uses \C or \c, \< or />, \( or \), it will
either break or not match if you try it in Pan.

Also, groups of Slrn rules that use the "{: ... }" syntax will break
in Pan. You'll have to use PCRE's OR operator "|" instead.

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
and while the
standard auto-generated score file from SLRN MAY be read successfully by
Pan, its a matter of luck if it works at all as the syntax for the two
application's is disarmingly similar but different.

One thing that's likely to break even in a simple scorefile is
parentheses. E.g., to match a Subject containing "(was:" in Slrn,
you'd use
(was:
but in Pan this would have to be
\(was:
and the Slrn version would break.

I can't think of many other things that would break in auto-generated
scorefiles.

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
This could be why Pan only scores on a simpler set of criteria that the
more complex and customisable SLRN.

No, Pan can match fewer headers than Slrn, but the matching
capabilities for each header are at least as extensive.

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
It is also why Pan just quietly
ignores a whole scorefile if one detail is not to it's liking, a highly
likely event judging by the number of posts I've skimmed through by folks
trying to figure out why Pan doesn't use SLRN scorefiles as legend would
have it.

It's a pity if Pan doesn't provide an error message when the syntax is
wrong.

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
So, onto my question. (At last!)
Does anybody have any info regarding the syntax required to construct
scorefiles for *Pan*?

$ man 3 pcrepattern

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
I have a selection of scorefiles for SLRN, but need to "convert" the data
within them to make sure it does indeed work as Pan requires.

To summarise:

Change "\(" and "\)" to "(" and ")"
Change "(" and ")" to "\(" and "\)"
Change "\<" and "\>" to "\b"
Change "\C" to "(?-i)" and "\c" to "(?i)"

Change any rules that use the "{: ... }" syntax to use "|". This may
be complicated: here's a real example from my scorefile:

Score: =10
From: ***@example\.invalid
{::
Message-ID: @pjr\.gotdns\.org
Message-ID: @pjr\.motzarella\.org
}

This would become:

Score: =10
From: ***@example\.invalid
Message-ID: @pjr\.(gotdns|motzarella)\.org


I hope some of that will help. I've probably missed many of the
possible problems, and if there isn't at least one typo somewhere I'll
be surprised.

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on 03 May 2007 12:44:55 GMT, Peter J Ross

Post by Peter J Ross
and if there isn't at least one typo somewhere I'll
be surprised.
Change "\C" to "(?-i)" and "\c" to "(?i)"

The above should read:

Change "\C" to "(?i)" and "\c" to "(?-i)"

[Adam Funk]

Post by Peter J Ross
Also, groups of Slrn rules that use the "{: ... }" syntax will break
in Pan. You'll have to use PCRE's OR operator "|" instead.

I was about to ask what the "{: ... }" syntax does, because I don't
think I've seen it before, but ...

Post by Peter J Ross
Change any rules that use the "{: ... }" syntax to use "|". This may
Score: =10
}

then I saw this good example. I had no idea you could nest an or ::
inside an and : rule. Thanks.

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on Thu, 3 May 2007 14:31:34 +0100, Adam Funk

Post by Adam Funk

Post by Peter J Ross
Change any rules that use the "{: ... }" syntax to use "|". This may
Score: =10
}

inside an and : rule. Thanks.

See the end of /usr/share/doc/slrn/score.txt.gz for an example of the
reverse kind of nesting:

Score:: -1000
~Subject: \c[a-z]
{:
Subject: ^Re:
~Subject: ^Re:.*\c[a-z]
}

(which matches Subject lines that don't contain a lower-case
character, excluding an optional initial "Re:".)

But a possible PCRE equivalent is much less clumsy:

Score: -1000
Subject: ^(Re:\s*)?[[:^lower:]]*$

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on Thu, 3 May 2007 14:31:34 +0100, Adam Funk

Post by Adam Funk

Post by Peter J Ross
Change any rules that use the "{: ... }" syntax to use "|". This may
Score: =10
}

inside an and : rule. Thanks.

See the end of /usr/share/doc/slrn/score.txt.gz for an example of the
Score:: -1000
~Subject: \c[a-z]
~Subject: ^Re:.*\c[a-z]
}
(which matches Subject lines that don't contain a lower-case
character, excluding an optional initial "Re:".)
Score: -1000
Subject: ^(Re:\s*)?[[:^lower:]]*$

Peter, I don't see a personal website URL in your sig. If you have
none, how would you feel about cleaning up your treatment of the
differences between slrn and Pan scoring from this thread (I think you
at some point posted a self correction), for a page at Blinkynet? I
hesitate to say "writing a page" on the topic; while that would be even
cooler, I understand it's a lot of work. If you'd like, you can email
me at the string "use" immediately followed by the number 987 at
blinkynet dot net.

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on 3 May 2007 16:19:20 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Peter J Ross
Score: -1000
Subject: ^(Re:\s*)?[[:^lower:]]*$

Peter, I don't see a personal website URL in your sig.

http://pjr.gotdns.org/ is forthcoming when I reinvent the tuit: with
uptime currently at ~100 days not counting brief, deliberate reboots,
I think I can probably serve a few pages from teh box in the corner of
the room without annoying too many people. A beginner's guide to Slrn
appeals to me: most of the ones I've seen are either too complicated,
wrong, illiterate, or long outdated.

Post by Blinky the Shark
If you have none, how would you feel about cleaning up your
treatment of the differences between slrn and Pan scoring from this
thread (I think you at some point posted a self correction),

I'll have to wait and see if any of it works for the OP.

If you want to test too, for a start adapt your shared scorefile like
this:
Score: =-9999
Message-ID: \cgooglegroups\.com
It should work in Slrn but not Pan.

And this:
Score: =-9999
Message-ID: (?-i)googlegroups\.com
should work in Pan but not Slrn.

That's a simple example that turns case-sensitivity on.

Post by Blinky the Shark
for a page at Blinkynet?

Why not? But anything fit for archiving is sure to be a collaborative
effort anyway.

Post by Blinky the Shark
I hesitate to say "writing a page" on the topic; while that would be
even cooler, I understand it's a lot of work.

I enjoy writing HTML, but I do have other things to do: some people
reading about my love of regular expressions in this thread might
think that "getting a life" would be one of them.

Post by Blinky the Shark
If you'd like, you can email me at the string "use" immediately
followed by the number 987 at blinkynet dot net.

Thanks: and my Reply-To works exactly as written - i.e., don't delete
".spam".

[Troy Piggins]

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on 3 May 2007 16:19:20 GMT, Blinky the Shark

[snip]

Post by Peter J Ross

Post by Blinky the Shark
Peter, I don't see a personal website URL in your sig.

I agree with Blinky. Your knowledge of slrn is great, and I see
you posting many of the same responses here to common questions.
Why not put it up and just refer people to it?

Post by Peter J Ross
http://pjr.gotdns.org/ is forthcoming when I reinvent the tuit: with
uptime currently at ~100 days not counting brief, deliberate reboots,
I think I can probably serve a few pages from teh box in the corner of
the room without annoying too many people. A beginner's guide to Slrn
appeals to me: most of the ones I've seen are either too complicated,
wrong, illiterate, or long outdated.

Not that I'm vain or anything, but out of interest...

I asked for comments about my attempt at a slrn page a couple of
months ago. You made some comments about the <div>'s and
scrollbars etc, but said it looked ok.

Is there anything else, being completely brutal and honest, that
you think needs improving? IS it too complicated, wrong,
illiterate? I mean the content and format. I'm updating my home
page at the moment, so it won't be too much work to completely
re-vamp the slrn stuff.

You can email me off-list if you prefer. Reply-to is valid.

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on Fri, 04 May 2007 08:26:30 +1000, Troy

Post by Troy Piggins

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on 3 May 2007 16:19:20 GMT, Blinky the Shark

[snip]

Post by Peter J Ross

Post by Blinky the Shark
Peter, I don't see a personal website URL in your sig.

I agree with Blinky. Your knowledge of slrn is great,

Not really. I know the documentation well and I'm quite good with
scorefiles.

Post by Troy Piggins
and I see
you posting many of the same responses here to common questions.
Why not put it up and just refer people to it?

Sometimes I need to see information presented in more than one way
before I understand it, and I expect other people do as well, so I
don't mind answering similar questions twice.

Also, my posts about Slrn are already on the Web:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=insubject%3ASlrn+author%3APeter+author%3AJ+author%3ARoss&scoring=d>

But I suppose I'm not going to get out of it, am I?

<...>

Post by Troy Piggins
I asked for comments about my attempt at a slrn page a couple of
months ago. You made some comments about the <div>'s and
scrollbars etc, but said it looked ok.
Is there anything else, being completely brutal and honest, that
you think needs improving? IS it too complicated, wrong,
illiterate? I mean the content and format. I'm updating my home
page at the moment, so it won't be too much work to completely
re-vamp the slrn stuff.

It looks absolutely fine to me, but I'll add checking for typos and
testing of macros to my TODO list.

You could update your reference to the charset workaround by referring
to this streamlined version instead:
<http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.network.slrn.user/1770>

It doesn't mention the workaround for the luit symlink bug, because it
seems to have been fixed in current Debian and Ubuntu.

Post by Troy Piggins
You can email me off-list if you prefer. Reply-to is valid.

List??? N00b! :-)

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Peter J Ross
If you want to test too, for a start adapt your shared scorefile like
Score: =-9999
Message-ID: \cgooglegroups\.com
It should work in Slrn but not Pan.
Score: =-9999
Message-ID: (?-i)googlegroups\.com
should work in Pan but not Slrn.

All four tests confirmed here.

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on Thu, 03 May 2007 15:41:41 -0700, Blinky

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Peter J Ross
If you want to test too, for a start adapt your shared scorefile like
Score: =-9999
Message-ID: \cgooglegroups\.com
It should work in Slrn but not Pan.
Score: =-9999
Message-ID: (?-i)googlegroups\.com
should work in Pan but not Slrn.

All four tests confirmed here.

Thanks. I'll go to internal.test and start playing.

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on Thu, 03 May 2007 15:41:41 -0700, Blinky

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Peter J Ross
If you want to test too, for a start adapt your shared scorefile like
Score: =-9999
Message-ID: \cgooglegroups\.com
It should work in Slrn but not Pan.
Score: =-9999
Message-ID: (?-i)googlegroups\.com
should work in Pan but not Slrn.

All four tests confirmed here.

Thanks. I'll go to internal.test and start playing.

Full disclosure: I forgot to mention that they were tested on MID string

google

not the entire string you used.

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on 4 May 2007 15:49:25 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on Thu, 03 May 2007 15:41:41 -0700, Blinky

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Peter J Ross
If you want to test too, for a start adapt your shared scorefile like
Score: =-9999
Message-ID: \cgooglegroups\.com
It should work in Slrn but not Pan.
Score: =-9999
Message-ID: (?-i)googlegroups\.com
should work in Pan but not Slrn.

All four tests confirmed here.

Thanks. I'll go to internal.test and start playing.

Full disclosure: I forgot to mention that they were tested on MID string
google
not the entire string you used.

Not a problem: the test is of \c and {?-i}.

In Slrn "\cg" should match a lowercase g; in Pan it should match CTRL+g.

In Pan "(?-i)g" should match a lowercase g; in Slrn it *might* match
the string "?-ig", but I'd expect an error message instead, since "?"
should be escaped as "\?".

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on 4 May 2007 15:49:25 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark
Full disclosure: I forgot to mention that they were tested on MID string
google
not the entire string you used.

Not a problem: the test is of \c and {?-i}.
In Slrn "\cg" should match a lowercase g; in Pan it should match CTRL+g.

Well, that's quite a difference. :)

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on 3 May 2007 16:19:20 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark
Peter, I don't see a personal website URL in your sig.

Well, you asked for it, O finny one, so don't blame me.

<http://pjr.gotdns.org/slrn/pcre.html>

If you don't see a page about Slrn, I've probably misconfigured my
virtual hosts or firewall or something. If you do see a page about
Slrn, you'll know that I favour minimalist design.

So far I've given examples only of simple stuff.

(Page tested in Konqueror, Firefox and Lynx. IE users and fans of
jolly background music will have to look elsewhere.)

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on 3 May 2007 16:19:20 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark
Peter, I don't see a personal website URL in your sig.

Well, you asked for it, O finny one, so don't blame me.
<http://pjr.gotdns.org/slrn/pcre.html>
If you don't see a page about Slrn, I've probably misconfigured my
virtual hosts or firewall or something. If you do see a page about
Slrn, you'll know that I favour minimalist design.

Looks good. Will add a link from blinkynet.

Post by Peter J Ross
So far I've given examples only of simple stuff.

Great start.

Post by Peter J Ross
(Page tested in Konqueror, Firefox and Lynx. IE users and fans of
jolly background music will have to look elsewhere.)

:)

I like the large grey boxes that delineate the code. I do that here.
albeit not for code.

http://blinkynet.net/comp/dontask.html

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on 6 May 2007 06:48:22 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on 3 May 2007 16:19:20 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark
Peter, I don't see a personal website URL in your sig.

Well, you asked for it, O finny one, so don't blame me.
<http://pjr.gotdns.org/slrn/pcre.html>
If you don't see a page about Slrn, I've probably misconfigured my
virtual hosts or firewall or something. If you do see a page about
Slrn, you'll know that I favour minimalist design.

Looks good. Will add a link from blinkynet.

Not yet, please. There's one incomplete page, and it might be moved.

Would a page on configuring Slrn for use with more than one server be
useful? It's an Occasionally Asked Question, and would be Frequent if
more people knew it could be done at all. I can throw something about
that together quite easily.

But mostly I want to concentrate on beginner's stuff: how to construct
a From header in .slrnrc or using environment variables; adding FQDNs
to Message-IDs, changing default keybindings, etc.

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on 6 May 2007 06:48:22 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on 3 May 2007 16:19:20 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark
Peter, I don't see a personal website URL in your sig.

Well, you asked for it, O finny one, so don't blame me.
<http://pjr.gotdns.org/slrn/pcre.html>
If you don't see a page about Slrn, I've probably misconfigured my
virtual hosts or firewall or something. If you do see a page about
Slrn, you'll know that I favour minimalist design.

Looks good. Will add a link from blinkynet.

Not yet, please. There's one incomplete page, and it might be moved.

Lemme know.

Post by Peter J Ross
Would a page on configuring Slrn for use with more than one server be
useful? It's an Occasionally Asked Question, and would be Frequent if
more people knew it could be done at all. I can throw something about
that together quite easily.

Yes. I think that would be swell.

Post by Peter J Ross
But mostly I want to concentrate on beginner's stuff: how to construct
a From header in .slrnrc or using environment variables; adding FQDNs
to Message-IDs, changing default keybindings, etc.

I think two servers is actually pretty close to beginners' stuff, for
variables of beginner that include the example questions you mention.

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on 6 May 2007 21:09:39 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark
I think two servers is actually pretty close to beginners' stuff, for
variables of beginner that include the example questions you mention.

I was thinking of marking pages as suitable for beginners, experts or
intermediate users so that n00bs won't be put off immediately by
seeing what the upper reaches of the learning curve are like.

I'm currently using Slrn with four servers:

1. a server that requires authentication for reading and posting.

2. A server that requires authentication for posting, but allows
anybody to read.

3. A server that offers only internal help groups to unauthenticated
users.

4. A server (localhost) that requires no authentication.

And I have a simple system for managing all these that doesn't
require any use of S-Lang macros. I'm hopeful that a "How I did it"
page might be useful to somebody some time. (So now I have to write
it.)

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on 6 May 2007 21:09:39 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark
I think two servers is actually pretty close to beginners' stuff, for
variables of beginner that include the example questions you mention.

I was thinking of marking pages as suitable for beginners, experts or
intermediate users so that n00bs won't be put off immediately by
seeing what the upper reaches of the learning curve are like.

Consider marking the Newb pages as such, and just not marking the
others.

Newbs will be less frightened by a page with no warning than a page with
a warning. And to a newb, "Expert" or even "Intermediate" is a warning.

Post by Peter J Ross
1. a server that requires authentication for reading and posting.
2. A server that requires authentication for posting, but allows
anybody to read.
3. A server that offers only internal help groups to unauthenticated
users.
4. A server (localhost) that requires no authentication.
And I have a simple system for managing all these that doesn't require
any use of S-Lang macros. I'm hopeful that a "How I did it" page might
be useful to somebody some time. (So now I have to write it.)

I'm not using it for multiple servers right now, but when I have I've
run it from bash scripts of one line that starts it with a designated
server and uses a .slrnrc file dedicated to that server. The dedicated
and distinctively-named .slrnrc file contains stuff specific to that
server and imports the stuff that is the same for all servers (display,
keybindings...almost all of the "main" rc file) from another file.

[Adam Funk]

Post by Peter J Ross

Post by Adam Funk
inside an and : rule. Thanks.

See the end of /usr/share/doc/slrn/score.txt.gz for an example of the

Interesting --- I must not have made it to the end of the file last
time I looked at it!

[Whiskers]

Post by Adam Funk

Post by Peter J Ross
Also, groups of Slrn rules that use the "{: ... }" syntax will break
in Pan. You'll have to use PCRE's OR operator "|" instead.

I was about to ask what the "{: ... }" syntax does, because I don't
think I've seen it before, but ...

Post by Peter J Ross
Change any rules that use the "{: ... }" syntax to use "|". This may
Score: =10
}

inside an and : rule. Thanks.

Nor me; I think that counts as a 'Tip of the Day' :))

[Bob the Burger-Builder]

Whiskers <***@operamail.com> apparently said ...:

[...]

Post by Whiskers

Post by Adam Funk

Post by Peter J Ross
Score: =10
}
}

inside an and : rule. Thanks.

Nor me; I think that counts as a 'Tip of the Day' :))

Only for SLRN remember! Thats what this thread has been about, the
syntax difference between SLRN and Pan score files.

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
[...]

Post by Whiskers

Post by Adam Funk

Post by Peter J Ross
Score: =10
}
}

inside an and : rule. Thanks.

Nor me; I think that counts as a 'Tip of the Day' :))

Only for SLRN remember! Thats what this thread has been about, the
syntax difference between SLRN and Pan score files.

Power to the slrn people, right on.

http://blinkynet.net/comp/slrn_power.html

[Bob the Burger-Builder]

Blinky the Shark <***@box.invalid> apparently said ...:

[...]

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
Only for SLRN remember! Thats what this thread has been about, the
syntax difference between SLRN and Pan score files.

Power to the slrn people, right on.
http://blinkynet.net/comp/slrn_power.html

Oh hardy har! :)

Hey! How about a new keyset for SLRN that fits human hands? ;)

[Whiskers]

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
[...]

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
Only for SLRN remember! Thats what this thread has been about, the
syntax difference between SLRN and Pan score files.

Power to the slrn people, right on.
http://blinkynet.net/comp/slrn_power.html

Oh hardy har! :)
Hey! How about a new keyset for SLRN that fits human hands? ;)

That does not compute.

[Bob the Burger-Builder]

Post by Whiskers

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
Hey! How about a new keyset for SLRN that fits human hands? ;)

That does not compute.

$>bash: compute: command not found

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Whiskers

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
[...]

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
Only for SLRN remember! Thats what this thread has been about, the
syntax difference between SLRN and Pan score files.

Power to the slrn people, right on.
http://blinkynet.net/comp/slrn_power.html

Oh hardy har! :)
Hey! How about a new keyset for SLRN that fits human hands? ;)

That does not compute.

With all of the ESC combos, as a touch-typist I figured he was talking
about the distant placement of that key.

[Whiskers]

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Whiskers

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
[...]

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
Only for SLRN remember! Thats what this thread has been about, the
syntax difference between SLRN and Pan score files.

Power to the slrn people, right on.
http://blinkynet.net/comp/slrn_power.html

Oh hardy har! :)
Hey! How about a new keyset for SLRN that fits human hands? ;)

That does not compute.

With all of the ESC combos, as a touch-typist I figured he was talking
about the distant placement of that key.

Oh, I see. Perhaps an alternative binding to the silly key with a wiggly
window-frame on it would work?

[Bob the Burger-Builder]

Whiskers <***@operamail.com> apparently said ...:

[...]

Post by Whiskers

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Whiskers

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
Hey! How about a new keyset for SLRN that fits human hands? ;)

That does not compute.

With all of the ESC combos, as a touch-typist I figured he was talking
about the distant placement of that key.

Oh, I see. Perhaps an alternative binding to the silly key with a wiggly
window-frame on it would work?

Yeah. What IS that strange thing for anyway? Some kind of screen
maintenance function or something? I never got the thing to work.

;)

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Whiskers

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Whiskers

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
[...]

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
Only for SLRN remember! Thats what this thread has been about, the
syntax difference between SLRN and Pan score files.

Power to the slrn people, right on.
http://blinkynet.net/comp/slrn_power.html

Oh hardy har! :)
Hey! How about a new keyset for SLRN that fits human hands? ;)

That does not compute.

With all of the ESC combos, as a touch-typist I figured he was talking
about the distant placement of that key.

Oh, I see. Perhaps an alternative binding to the silly key with a wiggly
window-frame on it would work?

Hmmmm.

I use that one for making characters like ñ and ô.

But I suppose that would be okay since even though slrn is running,
focus is in my editor.

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on 4 May 2007 15:40:03 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Whiskers

Post by Blinky the Shark
With all of the ESC combos, as a touch-typist I figured he was talking
about the distant placement of that key.

Oh, I see. Perhaps an alternative binding to the silly key with a wiggly
window-frame on it would work?

Hmmmm.
I use that one for making characters like ñ and ô.

There are two of them: I use the right one as a compose key and have
never found a use for the left one.

Post by Blinky the Shark
But I suppose that would be okay since even though slrn is running,
focus is in my editor.

It shouldn't be necessary to remap the keyboard globally. Just change
the Slrn key mappings with setkey. For the funny extra keys, the octal
code will have to be used: this involves using xev and converting the
relevant output from decimal to octal.

See:
<http://www.slrn.org/manual/slrn-manual-5.html#setkey>
$ man 1 xev

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on 4 May 2007 15:40:03 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Whiskers

Post by Blinky the Shark
With all of the ESC combos, as a touch-typist I figured he was talking
about the distant placement of that key.

Oh, I see. Perhaps an alternative binding to the silly key with a wiggly
window-frame on it would work?

Hmmmm.
I use that one for making characters like ñ and ô.

There are two of them: I use the right one as a compose key and have
never found a use for the left one.

Hmmmm. I just poked the left one and found this popping up. :)

Loading Image...

Post by Peter J Ross

Post by Blinky the Shark
But I suppose that would be okay since even though slrn is running,
focus is in my editor.

It shouldn't be necessary to remap the keyboard globally. Just change
the Slrn key mappings with setkey. For the funny extra keys, the octal

I know re slrn mappings. I was having a brane pharbt.

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
[...]

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
Only for SLRN remember! Thats what this thread has been about, the
syntax difference between SLRN and Pan score files.

Power to the slrn people, right on.
http://blinkynet.net/comp/slrn_power.html

Oh hardy har! :)
Hey! How about a new keyset for SLRN that fits human hands? ;)

This is the only custom key I've installed. Animation on...

Loading Image...

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on Thu, 03 May 2007 15:59:21 GMT, Bob the

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
[...]

Post by Whiskers

Post by Adam Funk

Post by Peter J Ross
Score: =10
}
}

inside an and : rule. Thanks.

Nor me; I think that counts as a 'Tip of the Day' :))

Only for SLRN remember! Thats what this thread has been about, the
syntax difference between SLRN and Pan score files.

The thread has drifted. That happens here, especially when the Slrn
Mafia are involved. So few people have any problems using our
favourite news client that we don't often have much to talk about.

The PCRE stuff *should* work in Pan, because it uses correct PCRE
syntax as far as I can tell, but I don't use Pan much myself so none
of it has been tested in practice. I'll be very interested to know if
what amounts to a list of differences between S-Lang and Perl solves
your problem.

[Bob the Burger-Builder]

Peter J Ross <***@example.invalid> apparently said ...:

[...]

The PCRE stuff *should* work in Pan, because it uses correct PCRE syntax
as far as I can tell, but I don't use Pan much myself so none of it has
been tested in practice. I'll be very interested to know if what amounts
to a list of differences between S-Lang and Perl solves your problem.

So would I. :\

[Ted S.]

Post by Peter J Ross
The thread has drifted. That happens here, especially when the Slrn
Mafia are involved. So few people have any problems using our
favourite news client that we don't often have much to talk about.

That, of course, is because so few people use your favorite news client.
:-p

Mind you, I might actually try slrn if I had a console that could handle
multiple charsets, but Windows 98 isn't good that way....

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on Thu, 03 May 2007 21:01:55 -0000, Ted S.

Post by Ted S.

Post by Peter J Ross
The thread has drifted. That happens here, especially when the Slrn
Mafia are involved. So few people have any problems using our
favourite news client that we don't often have much to talk about.

That, of course, is because so few people use your favorite news client.
:-p

Few people drive Rolls Royces. :-þ

Post by Ted S.
Mind you, I might actually try slrn if I had a console that could handle
multiple charsets, but Windows 98 isn't good that way....

Slrn doesn't require multiple charsets. Use version 0.9.8.1, not a
developer preview or CVS, and you should be OK. slrn.org has links to
Windows binaries.

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on Thu, 03 May 2007 21:01:55 -0000, Ted S.

Post by Ted S.

Post by Peter J Ross
The thread has drifted. That happens here, especially when the Slrn
Mafia are involved. So few people have any problems using our
favourite news client that we don't often have much to talk about.

That, of course, is because so few people use your favorite news client.
:-p

Few people drive Rolls Royces. :-þ

My reply about driving Lambos was made before I read that. :)

Post by Peter J Ross

Post by Ted S.
Mind you, I might actually try slrn if I had a console that could handle
multiple charsets, but Windows 98 isn't good that way....

Slrn doesn't require multiple charsets. Use version 0.9.8.1, not a
developer preview or CVS, and you should be OK. slrn.org has links to
Windows binaries.

The gauntlet is thrown down by the slrn mafia! ;)

[Ted S.]

Post by Peter J Ross

Post by Ted S.
Mind you, I might actually try slrn if I had a console that could
handle multiple charsets, but Windows 98 isn't good that way....

Slrn doesn't require multiple charsets. Use version 0.9.8.1, not a
developer preview or CVS, and you should be OK. slrn.org has links to
Windows binaries.

I couldn't even get 0.9.8.1 installed. I downloaded it and extracted it,
and all I got was some 5MB file called [Content] that brings up the "What
application do you want to use" dialog when you double-click on it.

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on Fri, 04 May 2007 03:05:47 -0000, Ted S.

Post by Ted S.

Post by Peter J Ross
Slrn doesn't require multiple charsets. Use version 0.9.8.1, not a
developer preview or CVS, and you should be OK. slrn.org has links to
Windows binaries.

I couldn't even get 0.9.8.1 installed. I downloaded it and extracted it,
and all I got was some 5MB file called [Content] that brings up the "What
application do you want to use" dialog when you double-click on it.

Are you sure you got the right file?
<http://www.slrn.org/data/slrn-0.9.8.1-w32-1.zip>

I see five files (COPYING, COPYRIGHT, README, slrn.exe, slrnpull.exe)
with a total unzipped size of 602.2KB.

[Ted S.]

Post by Peter J Ross
Are you sure you got the right file?
<http://www.slrn.org/data/slrn-0.9.8.1-w32-1.zip>

That wasn't listed amongst the files at sourceforge, which is where the
download link at slrn.org took me.

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on Fri, 04 May 2007 18:08:57 -0000, Ted S.

Post by Ted S.

Post by Peter J Ross
Are you sure you got the right file?
<http://www.slrn.org/data/slrn-0.9.8.1-w32-1.zip>

That wasn't listed amongst the files at sourceforge, which is where the
download link at slrn.org took me.

I think you followed the link to download the source code.

"Please use our download page to get the tarball."
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=7768

For precompiled binaries you need to look further down.

"Windows (32bit)"
http://www.slrn.org/data/

That's partly my fault for pointing you vaguely to slrn.org instead of
the download link.

Anyway, assuming that you now have the binaries, have fun!

[Ted S.]

Post by Peter J Ross
For precompiled binaries you need to look further down.
"Windows (32bit)"
http://www.slrn.org/data/
That's partly my fault for pointing you vaguely to slrn.org instead of
the download link.
Anyway, assuming that you now have the binaries, have fun!

Thank you.

However, as I presumed (and alluded to upthread at
<***@ID-121946.user.dfncis.de>), the
problem is the console. I don't get the correct non-ASCII characters, but
whatever is in the second half of ISO-8859-1 (or it might actually be the
second half of Windows-1252).

Are there any Unicode-compatible consoles that work with Windows 98?

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on Sat, 05 May 2007 03:31:09 -0000, Ted S.

Post by Ted S.
However, as I presumed (and alluded to upthread at
problem is the console. I don't get the correct non-ASCII characters, but
whatever is in the second half of ISO-8859-1 (or it might actually be the
second half of Windows-1252).

Do you have this setting in slrn.rc?

set charset ibm850

It *might* work.

If you don't have an slrn.rc, since there no longer seems to be one
included with the Windows package, here are instructiions and a
specimen file:
<http://www.slrn.org/docs/INSTALL.w32>
<http://www.slrn.org/docs/slrn.rc>

Post by Ted S.
Are there any Unicode-compatible consoles that work with Windows 98?

I don't know, but Slrn 0.9.8.1 doesn't use Unicode, so that's not the
problem here.

[Ted S.]

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on Sat, 05 May 2007 03:31:09 -0000, Ted S.

Post by Ted S.
However, as I presumed (and alluded to upthread at
the problem is the console. I don't get the correct non-ASCII
characters, but whatever is in the second half of ISO-8859-1 (or it
might actually be the second half of Windows-1252).

Do you have this setting in slrn.rc?
set charset ibm850
It *might* work.

It doesn't seem to be working; instead, trying to open any group causes a
crash. :-| Here's the stack dump; not that it will help much:

<snip>

SLRN caused an invalid page fault in
module SLRN.EXE at 0167:004395bf.
Registers:
EAX=007f007a CS=0167 EIP=004395bf EFLGS=00010246
EBX=0091221d SS=016f ESP=007dfa10 EBP=007dfa18
ECX=0041fd3d DS=016f ESI=007dfb40 FS=5caf
EDX=ffffffbb ES=016f EDI=007dfb40 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
66 8b 04 50 83 e0 08 25 ff ff 00 00 eb dd 8d 76
Stack dump:
00000000 00912350 007dfbd8 004038a0 0091221d 00000000 007dfb6b 007dfb6b
00000000 00000000 00000000 00911f0f 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000

</snip>

Changing the font back to isolatin stopped the crashes.

Post by Peter J Ross
If you don't have an slrn.rc, since there no longer seems to be one
included with the Windows package, here are instructiions and a
<http://www.slrn.org/docs/INSTALL.w32>
<http://www.slrn.org/docs/slrn.rc>

That wasn't a problem; I just installed 0.9.8.1 over 0.9.7.4 and used the
slrn.rc that was there the last time I tried out slrn.

Post by Peter J Ross

Post by Ted S.
Are there any Unicode-compatible consoles that work with Windows 98?

I don't know, but Slrn 0.9.8.1 doesn't use Unicode, so that's not the
problem here.

The problem is that I speak both German and Russian, and would like to use
one newsreader for all my newsreading needs. As such, I'd need a
newsreader that can handle both ISO-8859-1 or -15, as well as the Cyrillic
charsets. Slrn in and of itself may be able to do that, but the console
can't. As it is, I'm now getting a font that has Greek letters in the 8-
bit characters, and can't figure out how to change it to anything else.

[Mike Dee]

[...]

Post by Ted S.

Post by Peter J Ross

Post by Ted S.
Are there any Unicode-compatible consoles that work with Windows 98?

I don't know, but Slrn 0.9.8.1 doesn't use Unicode, so that's not
the problem here.

The problem is that I speak both German and Russian, and would
like to use one newsreader for all my newsreading needs. As such,
I'd need a newsreader that can handle both ISO-8859-1 or -15, as
well as the Cyrillic charsets. Slrn in and of itself may be able
to do that, but the console can't. As it is, I'm now getting a
font that has Greek letters in the 8- bit characters, and can't
figure out how to change it to anything else.

You could try running Patrick Lamaizière's Mime-proxy with Xnews
http://www.lamaiziere.net/mp_pagen.html - this will likely help in this
case.

Or Run a Win32 port of Pan. The stable 0.14.2x release handles Unicode
well. I can't vouch for the newer beta releases, but assume they
won't've left that out.

You can choose beta or stable Pan for Windows here:
http://pan.rebelbase.com/download/

And DL the appropriate GTK+ for Win 98/ME here:
http://pan.rebelbase.com/download/

Actually I'm not sure if the newer beta releases of Pan will run on
98/ME, but the stable version does. Someone who uses the newer beta
releases may be able to confirm this for you and it's ability with
Unicode.

[Mike Dee]

Post by Mike Dee
http://pan.rebelbase.com/download/
http://pan.rebelbase.com/download/

Oops I really meant, the appropriate GTK+ for Win 98/ME from here:
http://pan.rebelbase.com/download/releases/0.14.2/WINDOWS/gtk_for_windows/

[»Q«]

User-Agent: Xnews/2006.08.24
You could try running Patrick Lamaizi_re's Mime-proxy with Xnews

Are you running it? Your headers didn't specify a charset, which makes
my reader (Claws Mail) give up on trying to figure out how to render
8bit characters. You've got a MIME-Version header, but you'd need
Content-Transfer-Encoding and Content-Type headers.

[Mike Dee]

Post by »Q«

User-Agent: Xnews/2006.08.24
You could try running Patrick Lamaizi_re's Mime-proxy with Xnews

Are you running it?

No, that was a stock standard Xnews posting.

Pan for this post. How does Patrick Lamaizière's name show up in Claws,
this time?

[Whiskers]

Post by Mike Dee

Post by »Q«

User-Agent: Xnews/2006.08.24
You could try running Patrick Lamaizi_re's Mime-proxy with Xnews

Are you running it?

No, that was a stock standard Xnews posting.
Pan for this post. How does Patrick Lamaizière's name show up in Claws,
this time?

It certainly works OK for slrn :))

[Mike Dee]

Post by Whiskers

Post by Mike Dee

Post by »Q«

You could try running Patrick Lamaizi_re's Mime-proxy with Xnews

Are you running it?

No, that was a stock standard Xnews posting.
Pan for this post. How does Patrick Lamaizière's name show up in
Claws, this time?

It certainly works OK for slrn :))

Thanks Whiskers.

I expected Pan would, it does the "right thing" header-wise and can handle
multiple character sets. I can see where Q was coming from re that post I
made using Xnews.
I don't think you can enable the "Content-Transfer-Encoding:" header in
Xnews... I'll dig around and see if I can find it, but I don't think it's
available.

Slrn is obviously more accommodating than Claws Mail (I read your response
to Q's post, too) :)

[Mike Dee]

Post by Mike Dee
I don't think you can enable the "Content-Transfer-Encoding:"
header in Xnews... I'll dig around and see if I can find it, but I
don't think it's available.

Garrr!!! I had those headers *turned off* in Xnews. Stupid me. It
must've been like that for *years*! My thanks to Q for the wake-up
call :-)

[Whiskers]

Post by »Q«

User-Agent: Xnews/2006.08.24
You could try running Patrick Lamaizi_re's Mime-proxy with Xnews

Are you running it? Your headers didn't specify a charset, which makes
my reader (Claws Mail) give up on trying to figure out how to render
8bit characters. You've got a MIME-Version header, but you'd need
Content-Transfer-Encoding and Content-Type headers.

Interesting; my slrn correctly renders "Lamaizière" with the e-grave
accented character in Mike Dee's article, despite its not having a
Content-Type header specifying a 'charset'. I expect that my editor and
slrn between them will choose and specify a suitable character set for
posting this article ...

[Ted S.]

Post by Mike Dee
Or Run a Win32 port of Pan. The stable 0.14.2x release handles Unicode
well. I can't vouch for the newer beta releases, but assume they
won't've left that out.

I'd tried Pan before, and still had the .exe on my hard drive. Now I
remember why it didn't work for me: Messages in one of the Russian-
languague groups I read gave the following as the subject title in the
mesage list pane:

=?windows-1251?Q?

That's it; no mention of the actual Subject line. Obviously, that's a
show stopper for me. :-)

[Mike Dee]

Post by Ted S.
I'd tried Pan before, and still had the .exe on my hard drive. Now I
remember why it didn't work for me: Messages in one of the Russian-
languague groups I read gave the following as the subject title in the
=?windows-1251?Q?
That's it; no mention of the actual Subject line. Obviously, that's a
show stopper for me. :-)

You of course would've gone to your user profile, selected windows-1251
from Pan's list of language choices for that profile and reloaded the
message pane?

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Mike Dee

Post by Ted S.
I'd tried Pan before, and still had the .exe on my hard drive. Now I
remember why it didn't work for me: Messages in one of the Russian-
languague groups I read gave the following as the subject title in the
=?windows-1251?Q?
That's it; no mention of the actual Subject line. Obviously, that's a
show stopper for me. :-)

You of course would've gone to your user profile, selected windows-1251
from Pan's list of language choices for that profile and reloaded the
message pane?

Then what would Ted have seen in that field?

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Ted S.

Post by Mike Dee
Or Run a Win32 port of Pan. The stable 0.14.2x release handles Unicode
well. I can't vouch for the newer beta releases, but assume they
won't've left that out.

I'd tried Pan before, and still had the .exe on my hard drive. Now I
remember why it didn't work for me: Messages in one of the Russian-
languague groups I read gave the following as the subject title in the
=?windows-1251?Q?

Heck, that's not so special. There's some guy in here that does that.
Or is that in his From header. Or is it somewhere else. Hey, this is
my first post today...they'll get more confident as I go. :)

Post by Ted S.
That's it; no mention of the actual Subject line. Obviously, that's a
show stopper for me. :-)

That's *all*?

That's ugly.

Makes scoring kinda tough, too... :)

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Ted S.

Post by Peter J Ross
The thread has drifted. That happens here, especially when the Slrn
Mafia are involved. So few people have any problems using our
favourite news client that we don't often have much to talk about.

That, of course, is because so few people use your favorite news client.
:-p

1. Not many people drive Lambos, either. :)

2. Anyway, it depends on where you go. In alt.fuzzy.kitties, you're
right. In other places, you're not.

Post by Ted S.
Mind you, I might actually try slrn if I had a console that could handle
multiple charsets, but Windows 98 isn't good that way....

Ya can't beat Xnews for Win-only news clientness.

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on Thu, 03 May 2007 15:59:21 GMT, Bob the

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
[...]

Post by Whiskers

Post by Adam Funk

Post by Peter J Ross
Score: =10
}
}

inside an and : rule. Thanks.

Nor me; I think that counts as a 'Tip of the Day' :))

Only for SLRN remember! Thats what this thread has been about, the
syntax difference between SLRN and Pan score files.

The thread has drifted.

Huh? It's about Pan and slrn score file differences. Same as the
Subject header.

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on 3 May 2007 22:43:51 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Peter J Ross
The thread has drifted.

Huh? It's about Pan and slrn score file differences. Same as the
Subject header.

It's been about creating Slrn scorefile entries, not about converting
them for Pan. Not that I'm complaining.

[Bob the Burger-Builder]

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on 3 May 2007 22:43:51 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Peter J Ross
The thread has drifted.

Huh? It's about Pan and slrn score file differences. Same as the
Subject header.

It's been about creating Slrn scorefile entries, not about converting them
for Pan. Not that I'm complaining.

Er, its me who started the thread, and its about (was?) converting SLRN
scorefiles to Pan format. The root of my questions have been
regarding the s-lang syntax (SLRN) to pcre syntax (Pan) "language"
problems I'm facing.

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on 3 May 2007 22:43:51 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Peter J Ross
The thread has drifted.

Huh? It's about Pan and slrn score file differences. Same as the
Subject header.

It's been about creating Slrn scorefile entries, not about converting
them for Pan. Not that I'm complaining.

I guess I've only been reading the subthreads that are about writing
rules that both can handle.

[Bob the Burger-Builder]

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on Thu, 03 May 2007 11:39:50 GMT, Bob the

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
Pan is supposed to be able to use SLRN scorefiles. While this may be
true if auto-generated scores are transfered, I've found that custom
score files tend to crash and burn, or just do nothing.

Auto-generated scorefiles rarely contain anything complicated.

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
The reason why took me some time to dig/figure out. Pan and SLRN use
different interpreters or something, slang/pcre/?

Yes. S-Lang regular expressions use a different syntax from PCRE, and
complicated examples may be incompatible. Here's a highly artificial
S-Lang: \C \< \( \d\d\d \) \1 \c Z \> PCRE: (?i) \b (
\d{3} ) \1 {?-i} Z \b
Both these expressions match a "word" of six digits and an uppercase Z in
which digits 4-6 are the same as digits 1-3, such as "123123Z", but
neither will work in the wrong language. So if you have anything in your
Slrn scorefile that uses \C or \c, \< or />, \( or \), it will either
break or not match if you try it in Pan.
Also, groups of Slrn rules that use the "{: ... }" syntax will break in
Pan. You'll have to use PCRE's OR operator "|" instead.

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
and while the
standard auto-generated score file from SLRN MAY be read successfully by
Pan, its a matter of luck if it works at all as the syntax for the two
application's is disarmingly similar but different.

One thing that's likely to break even in a simple scorefile is
parentheses. E.g., to match a Subject containing "(was:" in Slrn, you'd
use
but in Pan this would have to be
and the Slrn version would break.
I can't think of many other things that would break in auto-generated

[...]

Post by Peter J Ross

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
So, onto my question. (At last!)
Does anybody have any info regarding the syntax required to construct
scorefiles for *Pan*?

$ man 3 pcrepattern

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
I have a selection of scorefiles for SLRN, but need to "convert" the
data within them to make sure it does indeed work as Pan requires.

Change "\(" and "\)" to "(" and ")"
Change "(" and ")" to "\(" and "\)"
Change "\<" and "\>" to "\b"
Change "\C" to "(?-i)" and "\c" to "(?i)"
Change any rules that use the "{: ... }" syntax to use "|". This may be
Score: =10
}
}
Score: =10
I hope some of that will help. I've probably missed many of the possible
problems, and if there isn't at least one typo somewhere I'll be
surprised.

Many thanks! Just the "prod in the right direction" I wanted.

I'll post up how things go, and hopefully knock a script up to auto
convert SLRN scores to Pan. (Ambitious or what!) ;)

[Bob the Burger-Builder]

Bob the Burger-Builder <***@Build.dur> apparently said ...:

Er, sorry for the multiple posts but...

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder

Post by Peter J Ross
I hope some of that will help. I've probably missed many of the possible
problems, and if there isn't at least one typo somewhere I'll be
surprised.

Many thanks! Just the "prod in the right direction" I wanted.
I'll post up how things go, and hopefully knock a script up to auto
convert SLRN scores to Pan. (Ambitious or what!) ;)

According to the "writer" part of Pan, this should be seriously snipped
text!

Just try this one last time before I investigate.

[Bob the Burger-Builder]

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
Just try this one last time before I investigate.

Aha! Now what happpened there I wonder?

You'd think that if you delete some text in a followup, it would stay
deleted when you post it?

I think I'll have to come back to this problem when I've had something to
eat. A rumbling stomach is not help at these times. :(

[Bob the Burger-Builder]

Peter J Ross <***@example.invalid> apparently said ...:

[...]

Post by Peter J Ross

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
So, onto my question. (At last!)
Does anybody have any info regarding the syntax required to construct
scorefiles for *Pan*?

$ man 3 pcrepattern

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
I have a selection of scorefiles for SLRN, but need to "convert" the
data within them to make sure it does indeed work as Pan requires.

Change "\(" and "\)" to "(" and ")"
Change "(" and ")" to "\(" and "\)"
Change "\<" and "\>" to "\b"
Change "\C" to "(?-i)" and "\c" to "(?i)"
Change any rules that use the "{: ... }" syntax to use "|". This may be
Score: =10
}
}
Score: =10
I hope some of that will help. I've probably missed many of the possible
problems, and if there isn't at least one typo somewhere I'll be
surprised.

Many thanks! Just the "prod in the right direction" I wanted.

I'll post up how things go, and hopefully knock a script up to auto
convert SLRN scores to Pan. (Ambitious or what!) ;)

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on Thu, 03 May 2007 11:39:50 GMT, Bob the

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
Pan is supposed to be able to use SLRN scorefiles. While this may be true
if auto-generated scores are transfered, I've found that custom score
files tend to crash and burn, or just do nothing.

Auto-generated scorefiles rarely contain anything complicated.

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
The reason why took me some time to dig/figure out. Pan and SLRN use
different interpreters or something, slang/pcre/?

Yes. S-Lang regular expressions use a different syntax from PCRE, and
complicated examples may be incompatible. Here's a highly artificial
S-Lang: \C \< \( \d\d\d \) \1 \c Z \>
PCRE: (?i) \b ( \d{3} ) \1 {?-i} Z \b
Both these expressions match a "word" of six digits and an uppercase Z
in which digits 4-6 are the same as digits 1-3, such as "123123Z", but
neither will work in the wrong language. So if you have anything in
your Slrn scorefile that uses \C or \c, \< or />, \( or \), it will
either break or not match if you try it in Pan.
Also, groups of Slrn rules that use the "{: ... }" syntax will break
in Pan. You'll have to use PCRE's OR operator "|" instead.

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
and while the
standard auto-generated score file from SLRN MAY be read successfully by
Pan, its a matter of luck if it works at all as the syntax for the two
application's is disarmingly similar but different.

One thing that's likely to break even in a simple scorefile is
parentheses. E.g., to match a Subject containing "(was:" in Slrn,
you'd use
but in Pan this would have to be
and the Slrn version would break.
I can't think of many other things that would break in auto-generated
scorefiles.

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
This could be why Pan only scores on a simpler set of criteria that the
more complex and customisable SLRN.

No, Pan can match fewer headers than Slrn, but the matching
capabilities for each header are at least as extensive.

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
It is also why Pan just quietly
ignores a whole scorefile if one detail is not to it's liking, a highly
likely event judging by the number of posts I've skimmed through by folks
trying to figure out why Pan doesn't use SLRN scorefiles as legend would
have it.

It's a pity if Pan doesn't provide an error message when the syntax is
wrong.

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
So, onto my question. (At last!)
Does anybody have any info regarding the syntax required to construct
scorefiles for *Pan*?

$ man 3 pcrepattern

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
I have a selection of scorefiles for SLRN, but need to "convert" the data
within them to make sure it does indeed work as Pan requires.

Change "\(" and "\)" to "(" and ")"
Change "(" and ")" to "\(" and "\)"
Change "\<" and "\>" to "\b"
Change "\C" to "(?-i)" and "\c" to "(?i)"
Change any rules that use the "{: ... }" syntax to use "|". This may
Score: =10
}
Score: =10
I hope some of that will help. I've probably missed many of the
possible problems, and if there isn't at least one typo somewhere I'll
be surprised.

Wow. I'm glad my custom rules in the score file used by both slrn and
Pan are simple and workable for both.

[Bob the Burger-Builder]

Blinky the Shark <***@box.invalid> apparently said ...:

[...]

Post by Peter J Ross
I hope some of that will help. I've probably missed many of the possible
problems, and if there isn't at least one typo somewhere I'll be
surprised.

Wow. I'm glad my custom rules in the score file used by both slrn and Pan
are simple and workable for both.

Examples please!

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
[...]

Post by Peter J Ross
I hope some of that will help. I've probably missed many of the possible
problems, and if there isn't at least one typo somewhere I'll be
surprised.

Wow. I'm glad my custom rules in the score file used by both slrn and Pan
are simple and workable for both.

Examples please!

Here are lines 1 through 5:

%BOS
[*]
Score:: =-9999
Message-ID: google
%EOS

:)

I have very little regex. That means more lines...and more readers that
can use the file.

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on 3 May 2007 16:27:47 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
[...]

Post by Peter J Ross
I hope some of that will help. I've probably missed many of the possible
problems, and if there isn't at least one typo somewhere I'll be
surprised.

Wow. I'm glad my custom rules in the score file used by both slrn and Pan
are simple and workable for both.

Examples please!

%BOS
[*]
Score:: =-9999
Message-ID: google
%EOS

Here are my lines 36-38:

% Gropers
Score: -10
Message-ID: \.googlegroups\.com>$

(which doesn't need adapting for Pan)

I have three G-Gropers provisionally listed for exclusion, and I'm
almost ready to change -10 to -50 (which means "mark read").

Post by Blinky the Shark
:)

Part of the fun is that you've somehow introduced The Google Problem
into a thread that was already drifting. :-D

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on 3 May 2007 16:27:47 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
[...]

Post by Peter J Ross
I hope some of that will help. I've probably missed many of the possible
problems, and if there isn't at least one typo somewhere I'll be
surprised.

Wow. I'm glad my custom rules in the score file used by both slrn and Pan
are simple and workable for both.

Examples please!

%BOS
[*]
Score:: =-9999
Message-ID: google
%EOS

% Gropers
Score: -10
Message-ID: \.googlegroups\.com>$
(which doesn't need adapting for Pan)

Neither does my rule. :)

Post by Peter J Ross
I have three G-Gropers provisionally listed for exclusion, and I'm
almost ready to change -10 to -50 (which means "mark read").

Post by Blinky the Shark
:)

Part of the fun is that you've somehow introduced The Google Problem
into a thread that was already drifting. :-D

I still don't get you. It's still about what the Subject header says.

[Adam Funk]

Post by Peter J Ross
I have three G-Gropers provisionally listed for exclusion, and I'm
almost ready to change -10 to -50 (which means "mark read").

I thought score < 0 always meant mark as read, but you inspired me to
check the slrn reference manual again: do you mean that you've set
max_low_score to -50 (or something between -10 and -50)?

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on Fri, 4 May 2007 11:19:20 +0100, Adam Funk

Post by Adam Funk

Post by Peter J Ross
I have three G-Gropers provisionally listed for exclusion, and I'm
almost ready to change -10 to -50 (which means "mark read").

I thought score < 0 always meant mark as read, but you inspired me to
check the slrn reference manual again: do you mean that you've set
max_low_score to -50 (or something between -10 and -50)?

Yes, I like to be able to give a post a small positive or negative
score for sorting purposes without marking it as important or read.

These are my .slrnrc settings:

set kill_score -75
set max_low_score -25
set min_high_score 25
% multiplying these numbers by ten would probably be a good idea

set sorting_method 12
set custom_sort_by_threads 1
set custom_sort_order "Score,date"

[Adam Funk]

Post by Peter J Ross
set sorting_method 12
set custom_sort_by_threads 1
set custom_sort_order "Score,date"

I've been using these:

set sorting_method 12
set custom_sort_order "Highscore,date|date"
set custom_sort_by_threads 1

to bring the threads with high scores to the top, although I go
through each thread in date order.

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Adam Funk

Post by Peter J Ross
set sorting_method 12
set custom_sort_by_threads 1
set custom_sort_order "Score,date"

set sorting_method 12
set custom_sort_order "Highscore,date|date"
set custom_sort_by_threads 1
to bring the threads with high scores to the top, although I go
through each thread in date order.

Of those three, I have

set sorting_method 3

What are you guys, some kinda sort fetishists? ;)

What I get are threads by alpha and all threads with direct replies
to me are at the top and (because of scoring settings) distinctively
colored (as are their headers when the thread is opened).

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on 6 May 2007 21:16:38 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Adam Funk

Post by Peter J Ross
set sorting_method 12
set custom_sort_by_threads 1
set custom_sort_order "Score,date"

set sorting_method 12
set custom_sort_order "Highscore,date|date"
set custom_sort_by_threads 1
to bring the threads with high scores to the top, although I go
through each thread in date order.

Of those three, I have
set sorting_method 3
What are you guys, some kinda sort fetishists? ;)

Why else would we be here?

J'ACCUSE you of not being sufficiently obsessed with newsreaders!

Post by Blinky the Shark
What I get are threads by alpha and all threads with direct replies
to me are at the top and (because of scoring settings) distinctively
colored (as are their headers when the thread is opened).

But how are the other threads sorted by intersetingness? Not at all,
apparently.

Incidentally, here's something for the Usenet Improvement Project:

% Slrn scorefile entry for Google Gropers
[*]
Score: -100
Message-Id: \.googlegroups\.com>
Score: -400
Message-ID: \googlegroups\.com>
{::
Xref: :.*:
~References: .
}

The theory is that Google Gropers aren't too bad unless they crosspost
or start new threads. With my settings, a post is marked read only if
both rules apply.

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on 6 May 2007 21:16:38 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Adam Funk

Post by Peter J Ross
set sorting_method 12
set custom_sort_by_threads 1
set custom_sort_order "Score,date"

set sorting_method 12
set custom_sort_order "Highscore,date|date"
set custom_sort_by_threads 1
to bring the threads with high scores to the top, although I go
through each thread in date order.

Of those three, I have
set sorting_method 3
What are you guys, some kinda sort fetishists? ;)

Why else would we be here?
J'ACCUSE you of not being sufficiently obsessed with newsreaders!

Post by Blinky the Shark
What I get are threads by alpha and all threads with direct replies
to me are at the top and (because of scoring settings) distinctively
colored (as are their headers when the thread is opened).

But how are the other threads sorted by intersetingness? Not at all,
apparently.

You are correct. They fall wherever they fall. But any that are
upscored to indicate interest are distinctively colorized so I won't
miss them.

Post by Peter J Ross
% Slrn scorefile entry for Google Gropers
[*]
Score: -100
Message-Id: \.googlegroups\.com>
Score: -400
Message-ID: \googlegroups\.com>
~References: .
}
The theory is that Google Gropers aren't too bad unless they crosspost
or start new threads. With my settings, a post is marked read only if
both rules apply.

My rule and recommendation are absolute. GGers get a -9999 and scoring
stops there.

[Mike Dee]

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
Does anybody have any info regarding the syntax required to construct
scorefiles for *Pan*?
I have a selection of scorefiles for SLRN, but need to "convert" the
data within them to make sure it does indeed work as Pan requires.

The version of Pan you are using, cannot score on the following headers,
regardless of whether your news provider supports scoring on these headers
or not:

Newsgroups
Path
User-Agent
X-Newsreader

There are probably others, you need to factor this in when converting your
scores files from slrn or Xnews.
U-A and X-N I can live without but Newsgroups and Path is a biggie for me.

If you're new to Pan, clicking the small circle in the bottom right corner
of the main window can be (very) useful, especially if it turns red (opens
the status log).

[Bob the Burger-Builder]

Post by Mike Dee

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
Does anybody have any info regarding the syntax required to construct
scorefiles for *Pan*?
I have a selection of scorefiles for SLRN, but need to "convert" the
data within them to make sure it does indeed work as Pan requires.

The version of Pan you are using, cannot score on the following headers,
regardless of whether your news provider supports scoring on these headers
Newsgroups
Path
User-Agent
X-Newsreader
There are probably others, you need to factor this in when converting your
scores files from slrn or Xnews.
U-A and X-N I can live without but Newsgroups and Path is a biggie for me.
If you're new to Pan, clicking the small circle in the bottom right corner
of the main window can be (very) useful, especially if it turns red (opens
the status log).

It does seem to be quite fussy about selecting a newsgroup however.

[news.software.readers] seems to be important to it.

What I could do with right about now is a few "tips" on what I can stick
in the "Plonk" panel so an entry operates acrross all NGs. Where it
specifies the NG, ie: news.software.readers, it would be useful to just
be able to stick a "*" in there so the same filter would filter across ALL
groups.

This would save quite a bit of repeated plonking of the same
users/subjects etc. in multiple NGs.

Cheers for the "small circle" hint BTW.

[Mike Dee]

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
It does seem to be quite fussy about selecting a newsgroup however.
[news.software.readers] seems to be important to it.

This is probably because you are using the "Tools" menu, "Custom Filters"
submenu dialog. It will be group specific when you are trying to plonk or
whatever from within a group.

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
What I could do with right about now is a few "tips" on what I can stick
in the "Plonk" panel so an entry operates acrross all NGs. Where it
specifies the NG, ie: news.software.readers, it would be useful to just
be able to stick a "*" in there so the same filter would filter across
ALL groups.

You should configure in your Preferences under the "Apps & Mail" tab a
Scorefile Editor, use it's pull-down menu list to choose an editor you
prefer or enter your own in here. Then make sure you have a path to
"Score" entered in the "Scorefile" setting below this.

Next time you want to add any scoring, choose "Tools" menu, "Edit
Scorefile" submenu to bring up the scorefile editor you chose.

It is very fast and *much* better to use this than the "Custom Filters"
dialog. Here you can enter score rules under the [*] hierarchy to your
heart's content.

[Bob the Burger-Builder]

Post by Mike Dee

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
It does seem to be quite fussy about selecting a newsgroup however.
[news.software.readers] seems to be important to it.

This is probably because you are using the "Tools" menu, "Custom Filters"
submenu dialog. It will be group specific when you are trying to plonk or
whatever from within a group.

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
What I could do with right about now is a few "tips" on what I can stick
in the "Plonk" panel so an entry operates acrross all NGs. Where it
specifies the NG, ie: news.software.readers, it would be useful to just
be able to stick a "*" in there so the same filter would filter across
ALL groups.

You should configure in your Preferences under the "Apps & Mail" tab a
Scorefile Editor, use it's pull-down menu list to choose an editor you
prefer or enter your own in here. Then make sure you have a path to
"Score" entered in the "Scorefile" setting below this.
Next time you want to add any scoring, choose "Tools" menu, "Edit
Scorefile" submenu to bring up the scorefile editor you chose.
It is very fast and *much* better to use this than the "Custom Filters"
dialog. Here you can enter score rules under the [*] hierarchy to your
heart's content.

Yup. I got all that already.

What I'm trying to do is write a custom scorefile in the syntax Pan
requires, which is not the same syntax as in SLRN, for which I alread have
a lovely combination of score files, which don't translate.

[Mike Dee]

Bob the Burger-Builder <***@Build.dur> wrote:

[...]

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
What I'm trying to do is write a custom scorefile in the syntax
Pan requires, which is not the same syntax as in SLRN, for which I
alread have a lovely combination of score files, which don't
translate.

Then stop using the "Custom Filters" dialog to do this.

And give an example of what "doesn't translate" for you.

[Bob the Burger-Builder]

Post by Mike Dee
[...]

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
What I'm trying to do is write a custom scorefile in the syntax Pan
requires, which is not the same syntax as in SLRN, for which I alread
have a lovely combination of score files, which don't translate.

Then stop using the "Custom Filters" dialog to do this.

As I've already mentioned, I'm not using that.

Post by Mike Dee
And give an example of what "doesn't translate" for you.

Ok. Samples coming up,

%%% =================================

% SLRN (s-lang syntax)

include score.more

[*]

Score: =-9999 % Just nuked...
{::
Subject: nastyword
Subject: badword
From: Idiot <***@nut\.yob>
From: Goofball <***@dosniworld.moc>
}

%%% =================================

The nearest I've got to duplicating this in Pan
(pcre syntax) is something like:

%%% =================================

%BOS
[^\S] % PLONK in all groups
Score: =-9999
From: ^"Idiot" <***@aol\.con>|"Bozo"<***@hotmail.con>|"Pest" <***@yahoo.con>$
%EOS

%%% =================================

You can see that one long horizontal line is a bit of a
pain to edit, and I'm only stuck for the appropriate pcre
instruction to ignore a line break as if reading
continuing data to get:


%BOS
[^\S] % PLONK in all groups
Score: =-9999
From: ^"Idiot" <***@aol\.con>NOBREAK
|"Bozo"<***@hotmail.con>NOBREAK
|"Pest" <***@yahoo.con>$
%EOS


So my question is, what, in pcre syntax, is the NOBREAK
thingie?

Got any ideas?

[Bob the Burger-Builder]

Bob the Burger-Builder <***@Build.dur> apparently said ...:

Dayam! Correcting for arthritis fingers!

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
%%% =================================
% SLRN (s-lang syntax)
include score.more
[*]
Score: =-9999 % Just nuked...
Subject: nastyword
Subject: badword
}
%%% =================================
The nearest I've got to duplicating this in Pan (pcre syntax) is
%%% =================================
%BOS
[^\S] % PLONK in all groups
Score: =-9999
%EOS
%%% =================================

[Mike Dee]

On Fri, 04 May 2007 16:11:49 +0000, Bob the Burger-Builder wrote:

[...]

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
% SLRN (s-lang syntax)
include score.more
[*]
Score: =-9999 % Just nuked...
Subject: nastyword
Subject: badword
%%% =================================

Note the double colon after Score (dunno about "include score.more")

[*]

Score:: =-9999 % Just nuked...
Subject: nastyword
Subject: badword

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
The nearest I've got to duplicating this in Pan (pcre syntax) is
%%% =================================
%BOS
[^\S] % PLONK in all groups
Score: =-9999
%%% =================================

Ditch the [^\S] and ^ and $ and full addresses from your example. %BOS and
%EOS usually is auto-generated you don't need to use it either, unless you
really want it there.

[*]

Score:: =-9999
From: idiot|bozo|pest

[Bob the Burger-Builder]

Mike Dee apparently said ...:

[...]

Post by Mike Dee
Ditch the [^\S] and ^ and $ and full addresses from your example. %BOS and
%EOS usually is auto-generated you don't need to use it either, unless you
really want it there.
[*]
Score:: =-9999
From: idiot|bozo|pest

And the final working model is:

%%% =================================

%BOS
[^\S] % Nukem list
Score:: =-9999
Subject: nastyword
Subject: badword
Subject: annoying phrase
From: Idiot <***@nut\.yob>
From: Goofball <***@dosniworld.moc>
%EOS

%%% =================================

[*] seems to work ok, but [^\S], looks cooler! ;)

With this, I can now get back to transfering chunks of my
SLRN scorefile(s) to Pan.

FWIW the "include score.more" is a function of SLRN's where
you can call in other score files from the designated one.
Kinda handy for including pre-constructed permanent score
conditions without having a huge long single file. Maybe
Pan will do this, but I'll figure it out later. For now I
can get most of the jobs done I need to do with a single
file.

[Mike Dee]

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
[*] seems to work ok, but [^\S], looks cooler! ;)

OK Bob. Happy scorefile plonking in Pan :-)

[Bob the Burger-Builder]

Post by Mike Dee

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
[*] seems to work ok, but [^\S], looks cooler! ;)

OK Bob. Happy scorefile plonking in Pan :-)

Filling that file as we speak... :)

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Mike Dee

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
Does anybody have any info regarding the syntax required to construct
scorefiles for *Pan*?
I have a selection of scorefiles for SLRN, but need to "convert" the
data within them to make sure it does indeed work as Pan requires.

The version of Pan you are using, cannot score on the following headers,
regardless of whether your news provider supports scoring on these headers
Newsgroups

If that's being used for filtering on number of crossposted groups, Xref
can be used -- and it's inexpensive.

<snip>

Post by Mike Dee
User-Agent
X-Newsreader

I can never remember which clients use which of the five or so headers
to identify themselves, but if you're killing Google Gropers, filter on
string google contained in MID.

[Adam Funk]

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Mike Dee
The version of Pan you are using, cannot score on the following headers,
regardless of whether your news provider supports scoring on these headers
Newsgroups

If that's being used for filtering on number of crossposted groups, Xref
can be used -- and it's inexpensive.

Scoring (in slrn for me) on Xref doesn't work so well for me because I
use leafnode (to present my ISP's "local" groups, gmane's groups and
the ones I get from individual.net as one list to slrn), so my Xref
headers include only the groups to which leafnode is "subscribed".

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on Thu, 3 May 2007 18:24:54 +0100, Adam Funk

Post by Adam Funk
Scoring (in slrn for me) on Xref doesn't work so well for me because I
use leafnode (to present my ISP's "local" groups, gmane's groups and
the ones I get from individual.net as one list to slrn), so my Xref
headers include only the groups to which leafnode is "subscribed".

As root, add to /path/to/leafnode/config:

create_all_links = 1

This will create an Xref phrase for each group in the Newsgroups
line, even if it doesn't exist on the upstream server.

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on Thu, 3 May 2007 18:24:54 +0100, Adam Funk

Post by Adam Funk
Scoring (in slrn for me) on Xref doesn't work so well for me because I
use leafnode (to present my ISP's "local" groups, gmane's groups and
the ones I get from individual.net as one list to slrn), so my Xref
headers include only the groups to which leafnode is "subscribed".

create_all_links = 1
This will create an Xref phrase for each group in the Newsgroups
line, even if it doesn't exist on the upstream server.

Good save. :)

Thanks.

[Adam Funk]

Post by Peter J Ross

Post by Adam Funk
Scoring (in slrn for me) on Xref doesn't work so well for me because I
use leafnode (to present my ISP's "local" groups, gmane's groups and
the ones I get from individual.net as one list to slrn), so my Xref
headers include only the groups to which leafnode is "subscribed".

create_all_links = 1
This will create an Xref phrase for each group in the Newsgroups
line, even if it doesn't exist on the upstream server.

Thanks! This is a very educational thread.

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Adam Funk

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Mike Dee
The version of Pan you are using, cannot score on the following headers,
regardless of whether your news provider supports scoring on these headers
Newsgroups

If that's being used for filtering on number of crossposted groups, Xref
can be used -- and it's inexpensive.

Scoring (in slrn for me) on Xref doesn't work so well for me because I
use leafnode (to present my ISP's "local" groups, gmane's groups and
the ones I get from individual.net as one list to slrn), so my Xref
headers include only the groups to which leafnode is "subscribed".

Bummer. :-/

I've never used leafnode, slrnpull, hamster...

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on 3 May 2007 16:31:33 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Mike Dee

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
Does anybody have any info regarding the syntax required to construct
scorefiles for *Pan*?
I have a selection of scorefiles for SLRN, but need to "convert" the
data within them to make sure it does indeed work as Pan requires.

The version of Pan you are using, cannot score on the following headers,
regardless of whether your news provider supports scoring on these headers
Newsgroups

If that's being used for filtering on number of crossposted groups, Xref
can be used -- and it's inexpensive.

Not if some of the crossposted groups don't exist on the server.
(but Hamster and Leafnode can solve this problem.)

Post by Blinky the Shark
<snip>

Post by Mike Dee
User-Agent
X-Newsreader

I can never remember which clients use which of the five or so headers
to identify themselves, but if you're killing Google Gropers, filter on
string google contained in MID.

"X-Newsreader: Microsoft" also has its uses.

Mike D also mentioned Path:, which is useful when one tires of
anonymous remailers and open servers.

[Blinky the Shark]

Post by Peter J Ross
In news.software.readers on 3 May 2007 16:31:33 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Mike Dee

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
Does anybody have any info regarding the syntax required to construct
scorefiles for *Pan*?
I have a selection of scorefiles for SLRN, but need to "convert" the
data within them to make sure it does indeed work as Pan requires.

The version of Pan you are using, cannot score on the following headers,
regardless of whether your news provider supports scoring on these headers
Newsgroups

If that's being used for filtering on number of crossposted groups, Xref
can be used -- and it's inexpensive.

Not if some of the crossposted groups don't exist on the server.
(but Hamster and Leafnode can solve this problem.)

True. But if you're not doing microgroups like
canada.brrrrr.for-sale.showshoes, it's not often going to be a problem.

Post by Peter J Ross

Post by Blinky the Shark
<snip>

Post by Mike Dee
User-Agent
X-Newsreader

I can never remember which clients use which of the five or so headers
to identify themselves, but if you're killing Google Gropers, filter on
string google contained in MID.

"X-Newsreader: Microsoft" also has its uses.

:)

Post by Peter J Ross
Mike D also mentioned Path:, which is useful when one tires of
anonymous remailers and open servers.

Score on these, from DCMoose, except for first line <g>, but note WebTV
header in my posts:

Message-ID: webtv
Message-ID: @anonymous
Message-ID: @dizum
Message-ID: @firenze
Message-ID: @gilgamesh
Message-ID: @paranoici
Message-ID: @remailer
Message-ID: @tatoo
Message-ID: @liberty
Message-ID: @cypher
Message-ID: @mixmaster
Message-ID: @anon.978.org
Message-ID: @anon.lcs.mit.edu
Message-ID: @bikikii.ath.cx
Message-ID: @buckwheat.jwiz.org
Message-ID: @cthulu.joatcrafts.org
Message-ID: @cypherpunks.to
Message-ID: @devspread.org
Message-ID: @dingoremailer.com
Message-ID: @ecn.org
Message-ID: email-scan.com
Message-ID: @eocto.net
Message-ID: @freedom.gmsociety.org
Message-ID: @geekhost.info
Message-ID: @gmx.de
Message-ID: @ixazon.dynip.com
Message-ID: @mail.cypher
Message-ID: @mail.futureworlds.it
Message-ID: @melontraffickers.com
Message-ID: @minder.net
Message-ID: @mindriot.net
Message-ID: @mix.uucico.de
Message-ID: @mixmaster.thebunker.net
Message-ID: @msgid.frell.theremailer.net
Message-ID: @nym.alias.net
Message-ID: @nym.xganon.com
Message-ID: @outel.org
Message-ID: @panta-rhei.dyndns.org
Message-ID: @redneck.gacracker.org
Message-ID: @remail.in
Message-ID: @riot.eu.org
Message-ID: @uni-muenster.de
Message-ID: @vger.smbtech.com
Message-ID: @x-privat.org
Message-ID: @xenophon.homeip.net

[Peter J Ross]

In news.software.readers on 3 May 2007 22:55:22 GMT, Blinky the Shark

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Peter J Ross
Mike D also mentioned Path:, which is useful when one tires of
anonymous remailers and open servers.

Score on these, from DCMoose, except for first line <g>, but note WebTV
Message-ID: webtv

<...>

Thanks, and thanks to DCMoose!

[Mike Dee]

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Mike Dee

Post by Bob the Burger-Builder
Does anybody have any info regarding the syntax required to
construct scorefiles for *Pan*?
I have a selection of scorefiles for SLRN, but need to "convert"
the data within them to make sure it does indeed work as Pan
requires.

The version of Pan you are using, cannot score on the following
headers, regardless of whether your news provider supports
Newsgroups

If that's being used for filtering on number of crossposted
groups, Xref can be used -- and it's inexpensive.

I use both. Xref in general, and Newsgroups when it is necessary.
Expense vs. sanity is a no-brainer for me.

There are times when I have needed to use both. The example I can think
of is a particular group I was subbing to suddenly got invaded by a
group of people who made a point of flame x-posting to as many diverse
groups as they could fit into a "FollowUp-To" header. It was nasty.

Xref is fine for getting the X-posts coming into the group, it's when
participants of the group you read, start responding to the x-posts (to
groups so "off-the-wall" they don't even get into your radar) that Xref
lets you down. You need the Newsgroups header primarily to prevent
loading responses to x-posts from with-in your own group, which don't
get picked up by Xref.

[Mike Dee]

Post by Blinky the Shark

Post by Mike Dee
User-Agent
X-Newsreader

I can never remember which clients use which of the five or so headers
to identify themselves, but if you're killing Google Gropers, filter on
string google contained in MID.

I don't use these headers to KF with, I use them as an alert, to let me
know before choosing to open a post, which client the user posted with. I
already KF GG'rs in MID.

Sometimes it's useful to know before-hand if someone is using OE, or BNews
or some other questionable client before opening (a potential mixed bag of
nuts) and the only way to do this AFAIK is to score on U-A etc headers.

Happily, because of Agent's fubar MID, it's easy to spot an Agent post by
scoring on MID (as easy as it is to KF a GG post).