Discussion:
sugg: a soc net style newsreader
(too old to reply)
v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
2020-02-18 00:38:20 UTC
Permalink
I feel social networks and blogs risk monopolisation and censorship, force
conformity, use unnecessary resources, require too fancy software, and
fragment users. Usenet in the 1990s united the world. I was at an event
discussing crowdsourcing for science and folks lamented the demise of usenet.

I'd like to see a reader both online (accessible by lynx browser) and as
an app that looks and feels like a social network. It should most of all
notify you when somone replies to your posts and when your friends post. It
should let you rank (1-10) how important posts are and so decide what to show
you first. I had a celfon in 1990-2009. Dumped it. I really get annoyed when
they ask me for a celfon or to update my browser.

I think MS Outlook's downloading a use list of groups crippled usenet, and
Google has not maintained the deja news franchise (some stuff seems to have
disappeared). Also they did not maintain the hierarchy, which would have
better followed academic departments.

I also think the moderator fanaticism was crippling. You can use kill
files instead of depend on the whim of others. We should allow individuals to
control what they view, not others.

One special peeve is, since I work in fields where brainstorming is
important, I would crosspost to groups I wanted to bring together. But the
narrow minded would complain they didn't want to hear it. I've actually seen
a strong enough current of support for crossposting (now disabled by google
groups, BTW) on the grounds it was more efficient than multiple posts to
multiple groups.

I really do think the internet of the 1990s was freer. Too many search
engines try to control what you see. They even disable booleans. Maybe they
do it to try to be helpful, maybe they are doing it to protect paying
customers, I can't tell. I have an analogy in Otmar Mergenthaler's linotype
leading ot an explosion of press freedom and hence democracies (in places
like Iran, Russia, Germany) in the late 1800s. Of course we know what
happened, govt learned to control the press. Well, look around, same with
internet - maybe not here, but most places.

Remember the orig net was peer-to-peer. Now everyone seems to be logged
in from a server farm in Texas. So where's the "inter" in internet?


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Adam H. Kerman
2020-02-18 00:54:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
I feel social networks and blogs risk monopolisation and censorship, force
conformity, use unnecessary resources, require too fancy software, and
fragment users. Usenet in the 1990s united the world. I was at an event
discussing crowdsourcing for science and folks lamented the demise of usenet.
I'd like to see a reader both online (accessible by lynx browser) and as
an app that looks and feels like a social network.
Social networks don't thread in any convenient way. This is an
outrageous suggestion. I don't use social networks, in part, because I
cannot get a threaded display and move between replies as if it were a
threaded tree.
Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
It should most of all
notify you when somone replies to your posts and when your friends post.
If I wanted this, I could write a macro.
Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
It
should let you rank (1-10) how important posts are and so decide what to show
you first.
Scoring? Newsreaders have had that feature for three decades.
Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
. . .
Mike Yetto
2020-02-18 22:08:22 UTC
Permalink
So it is writ, so mote it be....
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
I feel social networks and blogs risk monopolisation and censorship, force
conformity, use unnecessary resources, require too fancy software, and
fragment users. Usenet in the 1990s united the world. I was at an event
discussing crowdsourcing for science and folks lamented the demise of usenet.
I'd like to see a reader both online (accessible by lynx browser) and as
an app that looks and feels like a social network.
Social networks don't thread in any convenient way. This is an
outrageous suggestion. I don't use social networks, in part, because I
cannot get a threaded display and move between replies as if it were a
threaded tree.
It seems to me that the OP doesn't really know what Usenet is
(was?) and has much more experience with what falls under the
category of "social media" than with mailing lists, Usenet, or
IRC.
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
It should most of all
notify you when somone replies to your posts and when your friends post.
If I wanted this, I could write a macro.
You could do this with scoring as well, and tell how far from
your post the reply is.

#v+
[*]
Score:: 255 %direct responses
References: twooffive@*[^>]+> *$
Score:: 127 %2nd generation responses
References: twooffive@*[^>]+>[^>]+> *$
Score:: 63 %3rd generation responses
References: twooffive@*[^>]+>[^>]+>[^>]+> *$
Score:: 31 %4th generation responses
References: twooffive@*[^>]+>[^>]+>[^>]+>[^>]+> *$
Score:: 15 %5th generation responses
References: twooffive@*[^>]+>[^>]+>[^>]+>[^>]+>[^>]+> *$
#v-
Post by Adam H. Kerman
Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
It
should let you rank (1-10) how important posts are and so decide what to show
you first.
Scoring? Newsreaders have had that feature for three decades.
Would another three more be too much to ask for?

Mike "not that I'll be here to count them" Yetto
--
"My theory is that dark matter is actually just a thin patina of grime
covering the whole universe, and we don't notice it because we haven't
thoroughly cleaned the place in eons."
- Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal
n***@zzo38computer.org.invalid
2020-02-20 00:40:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
I feel social networks and blogs risk monopolisation and censorship, force
conformity, use unnecessary resources, require too fancy software, and
fragment users.
Yes, I think you are correct. I don't use social networking, though. NNTP is
much better than social networking, web forums, and mailing lists.

I highly recommend to use NNTP if you need to set up a discussion forum, rather
than requiring a web forum or mailing list. (See my comments below if there is
any difficulty with creating a new Usenet newsgroup if you need one.) (Also
note that multiple interfaces to the same messages are possible if wanted, but
I recommend that one of them be NNTP.)
Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
Usenet in the 1990s united the world. I was at an event discussing
crowdsourcing for science and folks lamented the demise of usenet.
Having not used Usenet in the 1990s (I only started in 2019), I cannot say.
Usenet is still in use, although not as much as before, I think.

In case of difficulties creating new newsgroups in Usenet (perhaps due to the
proposal being rejected), you can also create your own using another hierarchy
on your own server. In this case I might suggest Unusenet, where a newsgroup
name begins with "un", followed by the number of components in the domain name,
and then a dot and the reverse domain name, and then any further components you
want; this avoids namespace collision, and so allows federation with other
servers without interference, even together with Usenet if wanted, without
causing a problem. This domain name should normally be (but is not required to
be) the name of the server where the newsgroup originated. If the newsgroup is
on other servers too, they use the original name of the newsgroup with the
original server name, and not the name of the new server.

Apparently there is also "Usenet II" (net.*) and "Rock Solid" (rocksolid.*),
although I do not know much about them. I do know at least one server exists
with both Usenet and Rocksolid, and you could probably have any of them in
one server if wanted. In other words, Usenet and Rocksolid and Unusenet can
all work together with no problem.
Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
I'd like to see a reader both online (accessible by lynx browser) and as
an app that looks and feels like a social network. It should most of all
notify you when somone replies to your posts and when your friends post. It
should let you rank (1-10) how important posts are and so decide what to show
you first.
As mentioned in some other follow-ups, they mention how this works. The way
to do this scoring and notification might depend what software you use; my
own "bystand" software is customizable using SQL, so you can use a ORDER BY
clause to tell what to display first, WHERE clause and triggers to hide or
delete posts that you do not want, and other SQL functions and to check the
"References" header to find follow-ups to messages you posted, for example.
Other news reader software probably is capable of similar things, although
most don't use SQL.

Note also that Lynx supports NNTP, too. (It isn't the best NNTP client, and
does not do much, but it is there if you need it.)
Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
I also think the moderator fanaticism was crippling. You can use kill
files instead of depend on the whim of others. We should allow individuals to
control what they view, not others.
I agree with you.
Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
One special peeve is, since I work in fields where brainstorming is
important, I would crosspost to groups I wanted to bring together. But the
narrow minded would complain they didn't want to hear it. I've actually seen
a strong enough current of support for crossposting (now disabled by google
groups, BTW) on the grounds it was more efficient than multiple posts to
multiple groups.
I don't use Google Groups, but certainly cross-posting is useful sometimes,
and is a good thing to have. Yes, it is more efficient than multi-posting.
At least I know aioe (which is what I use) supports limited cross-posting.
(Excessive cross-posting can be problematic and is rarely useful anyways.
But in a few cases, you might want to cross-post a message.)
Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
Remember the orig net was peer-to-peer. Now everyone seems to be logged
in from a server farm in Texas. So where's the "inter" in internet?
The internet still is peer-to-peer, even if not used that way much now. But
I run my own email server, and other people can run their own servers too.
So, not everyone uses server farms in Texas.
--
Note: I am not always able to read/post messages during Monday-Friday.
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