Discussion:
Multipart binaries
(too old to reply)
Jim S
2021-04-15 15:51:18 UTC
Permalink
I just posted a video to another (binary) group and it split itsilf into 38
parts.
Fortunately Dialog was able to recombine the parts to a watchable video
which my default viewer was able to play, just to check.
Gravity, Xnews and Thunderbird just showed the 38 parts. Is there a method
for recombining such a bibary file or must it just be the 'right'
newsreader?
I am told Forte Agent will do it, but that's not free.
--
Jim S
Bernd Rose
2021-04-15 16:56:53 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 15th Apr 2021 16:51:18 +0100, Jim S wrote:

[Messages containing multipart binaries]
Is there a method for recombining such a bibary file or must it just be
the 'right' newsreader?
The newsreader must support binaries. (If you don't want to sit down, trying
to manually extract and combine the parts.) Look at this comparison chart:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Usenet_newsreaders

All Usenet Newsreaders listed as type "Binary Grabbers" or "Combination"
will probably work.

Bernd
Grant Taylor
2021-04-15 17:00:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bernd Rose
The newsreader must support binaries. (If you don't want to sit down,
trying to manually extract and combine the parts.)
Simply supporting binaries is not enough. Thunderbird supports binaries
when the binary is contained in a single message.

The newsreader must support binaries spread across multiple articles.
Far fewer newsreaders support this.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
Bernd Rose
2021-04-15 18:41:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Taylor
Simply supporting binaries is not enough. Thunderbird supports binaries
when the binary is contained in a single message.
If you wouldn't snip two thirds of my message you wouldn't be lead into
temptation trying to be a smart-ass in the wrong places: I told the OP
to look for the type entries "Binary Grabbers" and "Combination" on the
comparison website I linked to. Newsreaders listed in these 2 categories
provide the binary support to read multipart binary messages.

"Traditional Newsreaders" (as of above mentioned list) usually support
decoding (and subsequently displaying/saving) encoded message parts of
single messages. But that wasn't the question and therefore is not part
of my answer. - And this capability surely isn't referred to in Usenet
as "binary support of Usenet Newsreaders".

Bernd
Grant Taylor
2021-04-15 21:04:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bernd Rose
If you wouldn't snip two thirds of my message you wouldn't be lead into
I didn't snip two thirds of your message. I responded to the first half
(50%) of your message. I had no objection to the second half of your
message, so I elided it as quoting it provided no value.

Per Usenet (and email) netiquette I removed the part of the message I
was not directly replying to. That quoted lines to new lines ratio
thing that some news servers filter and reject articles based on.
Post by Bernd Rose
I told the OP to look for the type entries "Binary Grabbers" and
"Combination" on the comparison website I linked to. Newsreaders
listed in these 2 categories provide the binary support to read
multipart binary messages.
I have no objection to that.

You also stated: "The newsreader must support binaries. (If you don't
want to sit down, trying to manually extract and combine the parts.)"
plus a reference and a suggestion. Your "The newsreader must support
binaries." is the specific piece that I respond to.
Post by Bernd Rose
"Traditional Newsreaders" (as of above mentioned list) usually support
decoding (and subsequently displaying/saving) encoded message parts
of single messages.
Thus most "Traditional Newsreaders" do "support binaries".
Post by Bernd Rose
But that wasn't the question and therefore is not part of my answer.
Ah, but you are the one that stated "newsreader must support binaries"
without qualification. Hence why I added qualification of binaries
spread across multiple articles.
Post by Bernd Rose
And this capability
Which capability? The ability to support binaries in a single article
and / or the ability to support binaries across multiple articles?
Post by Bernd Rose
surely isn't referred to in Usenet as "binary support of Usenet
Newsreaders".
I've seen the ability to encode (post) / decode (read) binaries in a
single article as "binary support of Usenet Newsreaders" many times.
I've also seen and used a number of Usenet news readers that do not
support this. Hence why the ability to do it across multiple articles
is a special and specific feature. Hence why there are the "Binary
Grabber" and "Combination" clarifications on the chart you listed.

I maintain that the ability to encode (post) / decode (read) binaries in
a single article is not enough to do support what the OP was asking about.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
Bernd Rose
2021-04-16 05:23:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grant Taylor
I maintain that the ability to encode (post) / decode (read) binaries in
a single article is not enough to do support what the OP was asking about.
And I wrote /nothing/ about single articles. (My explicitly added heading
for the citation of the relevant part of the OP - yes, that's also a part
of my message you snipped - referred /only/ to multipart messages.)

And - contrary to your claims - I /never/ (in more than 30 years) read the
term "binary support of Usenet Newsreaders" in Usenet without referencing
multipart binary support. But okay, pick single sentences out of context
and "correct" them as intensely as you like.

Bernd
Jim S
2021-04-15 17:42:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bernd Rose
[Messages containing multipart binaries]
Is there a method for recombining such a bibary file or must it just be
the 'right' newsreader?
The newsreader must support binaries. (If you don't want to sit down, trying
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Usenet_newsreaders
All Usenet Newsreaders listed as type "Binary Grabbers" or "Combination"
will probably work.
Bernd
Thanks I'm getting there, one by one.
All those I originally mentioned do it if you know how.

Jim S
R.Wieser
2021-04-15 17:24:27 UTC
Permalink
Jim,
Is there a method for recombining such a bibary file
It depends on the encoding of the blocks.

Assuming its base64 encoded (a rather commonly used format) it would be
enough to just copy all blocks in the right order into a single file and
provide that file to a basic "base64decoder" program of your choice.
or must it just be the 'right' newsreader?
Its /possible/ that some readers use a method thats only used by a few other
readers, but not common. It would stand in the way of easy spreading of
the file.

The below is a sample of base64 encoding (the first line of a .ZIP file):

UEsDBBQAAAAIAId2d1ExOAUWzTgAAHpeAAALAAAAQ29uc29sZS5qcGfsWgdYU1kWfpbRHeswCBaK

Regards,
Rudy Wieser
VanguardLH
2021-04-15 17:51:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim S
I just posted a video to another (binary) group and it split itsilf into 38
parts.
Fortunately Dialog was able to recombine the parts to a watchable video
which my default viewer was able to play, just to check.
Gravity, Xnews and Thunderbird just showed the 38 parts. Is there a method
for recombining such a bibary file or must it just be the 'right'
newsreader?
I am told Forte Agent will do it, but that's not free.
There is no guaranteed order to when the binary multipart messages show
up. If they are not all available on the NNTP server you poll, they
fail to recombine. As I recall, the binary client is to slice the file
into .rar files in multiple messages, and is also supposed to send a
.par file that is used to [try to] repair the file due to missing parts.
PAR[2] files are to repair corruption during transmission, or to
compensate for missing RAR files. PAR files obviate the point of YENC
as having better compression for smaller RAR files: yeah, the RARs are
smaller, but then you're sending a PAR file. In addition, NZB files are
sent which aids a client to recombine the RARs into one file. In fact,
I remember seeing zome NNTP clients that relied on NZB files to figure
out which messages to use to reconstruct from the multi-part messages.
(e.g., SABnzbd, Newsleecher, News Rover, NZBget). The client sliced the
file into multiple posts depending on a configured max size for posting,
and also sent .par and .nzb files.

Also, most binary-capable multipart newsreaders use the bastardized
compression scheme that even its original author (Jürgen Helbing)
abandoned as being unreliable and even condemned the use of his
creation, but another grabbed it and promoted it. I think the crap
scheme was called Yencoded (aka YENC), so you need a client that
supports it to do both slicing up into multiple parts and to recombine
them later. As I recall, Mozilla never supported YENC (except for a
single-part message), so you had to install an extension to add YENC
support to combine multi-part messages. Microsoft's NNTP client also
never supported YENC. Uuencode already existed (from which YENC was
derived), and MIME replaced both.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YEnc

If you're going to slicing messages into multiple parts, you really need
to get an NNTP client designed for binaries in Usenet. I recall
sometime maybe 20 years ago that I trialed News Rover and Newsbin. The
Web ended being a far more reliable place to store large files, like at
many of the free online file services.

Forte Agent does support YENC (https://www.forteinc.com/agent/yenc.php),
and there were free versions, but they are very old versions. Dialog
supports YENC. Thunderbird (but might with an extension) and MS clients
do not. For NNTP clients that have no YENC support, or do but not for
multi-part recombination, yProxy showed up as a solution (similar to how
you use sTunnel to add TLS support to old e-mail clients).

My recollection was of using News Rover or NewsBin Pro for binary
newsgroups, and Outlook Express (eventually replaced by Forte Dialog
after trialing many others) for non-binary newsgroups. I wasn't
interested in blue content (aka porn) which comprised the vast majority
of binary newsgroups, so I got rid of News Rover and Newsbin. I kept
them for a long time in my software archive should I want to go back to
using them, but I just looked and I must've decided to delete them from
the archive as I had no interest in binaries for a long time.

I remember a buddy that was running an NNTP server who was complaining
about continually having to add more HDDs to keep up with all the binary
newsgroups. When he decided to see how much volume was attributed to
porn, and he wasn't interested in purveying that content, he dumped the
binary newsgroups. He recovered TONS of disk space, he ran his server
for another 20 years, and never had to add another HDD (and had lots of
space left from getting rid of the porn groups). Yes, there are a few
legit (non-porn) binary newsgroups, but their volume is miniscule
compared to the blue groups.

Be aware that many newsgroups don't allow attachments. Not talking
about just text-only newsgroups, but even those that allow HTML. Either
your attachment-laden submission(s) get rejected, or attachments get
stripped from your submission(s). You need to post in newsgroups
specifically assigned to binaries, or newsgroups where attachments are
allowed.
mick
2021-04-15 18:09:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim S
I just posted a video to another (binary) group and it split itsilf into 38
parts.
Fortunately Dialog was able to recombine the parts to a watchable video
which my default viewer was able to play, just to check.
Gravity, Xnews and Thunderbird just showed the 38 parts. Is there a method
for recombining such a bibary file or must it just be the 'right'
newsreader?
I am told Forte Agent will do it, but that's not free.
MesNews (free newsreader) - you have to select and then combine the 38
parts manually.

Pan (free newsreader) - combines the parts automatically so you only
see the 38 parts being displayed as one post in the reader

Newsbin Pro (paid software) - as above like Pan.
--
mick
Steve
2021-04-15 18:35:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim S
I just posted a video to another (binary) group and it split itsilf into 38
parts.
Fortunately Dialog was able to recombine the parts to a watchable video
which my default viewer was able to play, just to check.
Gravity, Xnews and Thunderbird just showed the 38 parts. Is there a method
for recombining such a bibary file or must it just be the 'right'
newsreader?
I am told Forte Agent will do it, but that's not free.
Gravity will do it. Create a filter named Complete_Binaries and put a check
in the box 'only show Complete_Binaries'. Select that filter. Select the
multipart binary you want to decode, right click it and click decode.
Xnews will do it too. Complete binaries have a symbol of 4 squares to the
left of the multipart binary. Select it and press F4.
Ralph Fox
2021-04-15 18:44:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim S
I just posted a video to another (binary) group and it split itsilf into 38
parts.
Fortunately Dialog was able to recombine the parts to a watchable video
which my default viewer was able to play, just to check.
Gravity, Xnews and Thunderbird just showed the 38 parts. Is there a method
for recombining such a binary file or must it just be the 'right'
newsreader?
I am told Forte Agent will do it, but that's not free.
Forte Agent 3.3 has a free option, and will combine.
Pan will combine (when Pan works 😀).
For Thunderbird and OE, use the methods here: <https://edmullen.net/mozilla/moz_combine.php>

Some newsreaders are designed to handle multi-part binaries
and others are not. For those that are not, there may be
a work-around using an external program.
--
Kind regards
Ralph
🦊
Eli the Bearded
2021-04-15 19:48:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph Fox
Post by Jim S
I just posted a video to another (binary) group
Why are people still using binary groups?
Post by Ralph Fox
Post by Jim S
and it split itsilf into 38 parts.
I'm very curious how the post could "split itself". I suspect your
news software did it for you behind your back.
Post by Ralph Fox
Some newsreaders are designed to handle multi-part binaries
and others are not. For those that are not, there may be
a work-around using an external program.
I remember aub, "Assemble Usenet Binaries", from the 1990s. Looks
like it sort-of is still around.

"unmaintained software since 2005"
"originally written in 1992"
https://mako.cc/software/aub/

Last commit: 18 Aug 2016 09:01:14
https://supernews.freshports.org/news/aub/

Elijah
------
cannot remember when he last looked at binary newsgroup
Ammammata
2021-04-16 08:28:58 UTC
Permalink
Il giorno Thu 15 Apr 2021 05:51:18p, *Jim S* ha inviato su
Post by Jim S
Gravity, Xnews and Thunderbird just showed the 38 parts.
uhm... my xnews (??.01.30) combines the binary parts

an interesting option would be to combine parts coming from different
newsservers, in case any of them is missing any part
--
/-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\
-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- - -=-
........... [ al lavoro ] ...........
Tekkie©
2021-04-16 19:29:53 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 16:51:18 +0100, Jim S posted for all of us to digest...
Post by Jim S
I just posted a video to another (binary) group and it split itsilf into 38
parts.
Fortunately Dialog was able to recombine the parts to a watchable video
which my default viewer was able to play, just to check.
Gravity, Xnews and Thunderbird just showed the 38 parts. Is there a method
for recombining such a bibary file or must it just be the 'right'
newsreader?
I am told Forte Agent will do it, but that's not free.
Try Newsrover. It's what I use to get vids and it's now free.
--
Tekkie
mick
2021-04-16 22:41:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tekkie©
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 16:51:18 +0100, Jim S posted for all of us to digest...
Post by Jim S
I just posted a video to another (binary) group and it split itsilf into 38
parts.
Fortunately Dialog was able to recombine the parts to a watchable video
which my default viewer was able to play, just to check.
Gravity, Xnews and Thunderbird just showed the 38 parts. Is there a method
for recombining such a bibary file or must it just be the 'right'
newsreader?
I am told Forte Agent will do it, but that's not free.
Try Newsrover. It's what I use to get vids and it's now free.
......and the link to the download is please?
--
mick
Tekkie©
2021-04-19 21:56:05 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 23:41:13 +0100, mick posted for all of us to digest...
Post by mick
Post by Tekkie©
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 16:51:18 +0100, Jim S posted for all of us to digest...
Post by Jim S
I just posted a video to another (binary) group and it split itsilf into 38
parts.
Fortunately Dialog was able to recombine the parts to a watchable video
which my default viewer was able to play, just to check.
Gravity, Xnews and Thunderbird just showed the 38 parts. Is there a method
for recombining such a bibary file or must it just be the 'right'
newsreader?
I am told Forte Agent will do it, but that's not free.
Try Newsrover. It's what I use to get vids and it's now free.
......and the link to the download is please?
You can't do search?
--
Tekkie
mick
2021-04-19 22:02:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tekkie©
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 23:41:13 +0100, mick posted for all of us to digest...
Post by mick
Post by Tekkie©
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 16:51:18 +0100, Jim S posted for all of us to digest...
Post by Jim S
I just posted a video to another (binary) group and it split itsilf into
38 parts.
Fortunately Dialog was able to recombine the parts to a watchable video
which my default viewer was able to play, just to check.
Gravity, Xnews and Thunderbird just showed the 38 parts. Is there a method
for recombining such a bibary file or must it just be the 'right'
newsreader?
I am told Forte Agent will do it, but that's not free.
Try Newsrover. It's what I use to get vids and it's now free.
......and the link to the download is please?
You can't do search?
I did, but I cannot find a free version, only a 30 day trial.
--
mick
Tekkie©
2021-04-21 21:01:15 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 23:02:07 +0100, mick posted for all of us to digest...
Post by mick
Post by Tekkie©
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 23:41:13 +0100, mick posted for all of us to digest...
Post by mick
Post by Tekkie©
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 16:51:18 +0100, Jim S posted for all of us to digest...
Post by Jim S
I just posted a video to another (binary) group and it split itsilf into
38 parts.
Fortunately Dialog was able to recombine the parts to a watchable video
which my default viewer was able to play, just to check.
Gravity, Xnews and Thunderbird just showed the 38 parts. Is there a method
for recombining such a bibary file or must it just be the 'right'
newsreader?
I am told Forte Agent will do it, but that's not free.
Try Newsrover. It's what I use to get vids and it's now free.
......and the link to the download is please?
You can't do search?
I did, but I cannot find a free version, only a 30 day trial.
https://news-rover.en.lo4d.com/windows

Used to be pay but is now free.
--
Tekkie
Jim S
2021-04-16 23:05:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tekkie©
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 16:51:18 +0100, Jim S posted for all of us to digest...
Post by Jim S
I just posted a video to another (binary) group and it split itsilf into 38
parts.
Fortunately Dialog was able to recombine the parts to a watchable video
which my default viewer was able to play, just to check.
Gravity, Xnews and Thunderbird just showed the 38 parts. Is there a method
for recombining such a bibary file or must it just be the 'right'
newsreader?
I am told Forte Agent will do it, but that's not free.
Try Newsrover. It's what I use to get vids and it's now free.
Thanks Tekkie. I'll look at that tomorrow.
My default reader is Gravity as it works now that I know how, and it can be
tailored however you want
--
Jim S
Tekkie©
2021-04-19 21:58:36 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 00:05:47 +0100, Jim S posted for all of us to digest...
Post by Jim S
Post by Tekkie©
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 16:51:18 +0100, Jim S posted for all of us to digest...
Post by Jim S
I just posted a video to another (binary) group and it split itsilf into 38
parts.
Fortunately Dialog was able to recombine the parts to a watchable video
which my default viewer was able to play, just to check.
Gravity, Xnews and Thunderbird just showed the 38 parts. Is there a method
for recombining such a bibary file or must it just be the 'right'
newsreader?
I am told Forte Agent will do it, but that's not free.
Try Newsrover. It's what I use to get vids and it's now free.
Thanks Tekkie. I'll look at that tomorrow.
My default reader is Gravity as it works now that I know how, and it can be
tailored however you want
Yes, I use Gravity also! Do you know how to increase the font size in the
spellchecker? It's microscopic for my old tired eyes 8)
--
Tekkie
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