Discussion:
[slrn] Help with the turbo-plonk macro
(too old to reply)
Benjamin Esham
2019-07-16 18:04:31 UTC
Permalink
I'm using slrn 1.0.2. I'd like to use the turbo-plonk script to
automatically killfile all of the articles that are anywhere downthread of
anyone I've killfiled. I downloaded the script from [1], tweaked it to look
for articles with score -9999 instead of -666, and added the appropriate
"interpret" line to my slrnrc. It doesn't seem to be working, though... I
see many instances where someone's post is given a -9999 score by my
scorefile but the replies (by other people) to that post are not given a
score.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what the macro is supposed to do? From reading
through the code, it seems like it examines each article in the newsgroup.
If an article has a score equal to -666 (or -9999, in the case of my
modified version), it adds an entry to the scorefile that applies to any
articles that have that article's Message-Id in their References header.
Then it reloads the scorefile. Is that right? I've checked my scorefile but
these entries definitely aren't being created.

Was there some bit of configuration I missed? Or is it possible that the
macro needs to be updated for slrn 1.0.2, or that one of the other macros
I'm using (fullthreads, onekey-score, and sort-headers from the slrn site,
and CatchupLeave from... somewhere) is interfering with turbo-plonk?

Thank you very much for any help!

[1]: http://slrn.sourceforge.net/macros/turbo-plonk.sl
--
Benjamin Esham
https://esham.io
Lewis
2019-07-16 20:38:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Benjamin Esham
I'm using slrn 1.0.2. I'd like to use the turbo-plonk script to
automatically killfile all of the articles that are anywhere downthread of
anyone I've killfiled. I downloaded the script from [1], tweaked it to look
for articles with score -9999
That was your mistake.
--
And Super Heroes come to feast
To taste the flesh not yet deceased
And all I know is still the beast is feeding.
J.B. Nicholson
2019-07-21 04:49:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Benjamin Esham
I'm using slrn 1.0.2. I'd like to use the turbo-plonk script to
automatically killfile all of the articles that are anywhere
downthread of anyone I've killfiled. I downloaded the script from
[1], tweaked it to look for articles with score -9999 instead of
-666, and added the appropriate "interpret" line to my slrnrc. It
doesn't seem to be working, though... I see many instances where
someone's post is given a -9999 score by my scorefile but the
replies (by other people) to that post are not given a score.
Have you also changed the default kill score to be something other
than -9,999? By default -9999 means slrn will kill the article.

Every article gets a score; the score might be 0, as it would be by
default if you didn't score articles, but 0 is still a score.

Try making your magic article score something else, like -9998 or
leaving it as -666 and see if that works.
Post by Benjamin Esham
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what the macro is supposed to do? From
reading through the code, it seems like it examines each article in
the newsgroup. If an article has a score equal to -666 (or -9999,
in the case of my modified version), it adds an entry to the
scorefile that applies to any articles that have that article's
Message-Id in their References header. Then it reloads the
scorefile. Is that right? I've checked my scorefile but these
entries definitely aren't being created.
I think you understand what auto_kill_fups() does.
Post by Benjamin Esham
Was there some bit of configuration I missed? Or is it possible that
the macro needs to be updated for slrn 1.0.2, or that one of the
other macros I'm using (fullthreads, onekey-score, and sort-headers
from the slrn site, and CatchupLeave from... somewhere) is
interfering with turbo-plonk?
You could try only running turbo-plonk and temporarily disabling the
other macros to see if there's interference. In your slrnrc, removing
the interpret lines, commenting them out, or surrounding them with
#iffalse/#endif should do the trick.
Benjamin Esham
2019-07-22 18:27:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.B. Nicholson
Post by Benjamin Esham
I'm using slrn 1.0.2. I'd like to use the turbo-plonk script to
automatically killfile all of the articles that are anywhere
downthread of anyone I've killfiled. I downloaded the script from
[1], tweaked it to look for articles with score -9999 instead of
-666, and added the appropriate "interpret" line to my slrnrc. It
doesn't seem to be working, though... I see many instances where
someone's post is given a -9999 score by my scorefile but the
replies (by other people) to that post are not given a score.
Have you also changed the default kill score to be something other
than -9,999? By default -9999 means slrn will kill the article.
Every article gets a score; the score might be 0, as it would be by
default if you didn't score articles, but 0 is still a score.
Try making your magic article score something else, like -9998 or
leaving it as -666 and see if that works.
I may have misunderstood how I'm supposed to be using scoring. Almost all of
the entries in my scorefile set articles' scores to -9999 (which is my
kill_score, since I've left that configuration variable at its default
value). With Usenet as quiet as it is these days, I take a binary approach
to scoring: either articles are "bad" (in which case I don't want to even
see them, or any of their followups, in the article list), or else they're
neutral (in which case their score is left at zero).

The turbo-plonk script is looking for articles whose score is exactly equal
to -666, and then it's creating rules to ensure that any followups to such
articles get scored at -9998. But my scorefile isn't setting any articles to
have a score of -666; it's setting them straight to -9999.

I think my error was in assuming that I needed to set an article's score to
kill_score in order to "hide" it (automatically mark it as read). But with
that definition of "hide", you only need to set an article's score to less
than max_low_score, which defaults to zero. So I tried changing all of my
scorefile entries to set articles to -666 instead of -9999; then I
reinstalled the original version of turbo-plonk and went into a newsgroup
where I had PLONKed some of the posters. The followups to those authors'
posts were indeed set to -9998.

(There were a couple of exceptions--some followups-to-followups whose score
had not been changed from zero. In those cases, none of the message IDs in
the "References" headers matched any in the scorefile. So slrn was applying
the scores in the scorefile correctly, but maybe turbo-plonk wasn't adding
as many entries to the scorefile as I would have liked? I'll need to keep
investigating what is happening there.)

I think maybe this is a workable solution for now. To be honest, I find
slrn's handling of already-read articles to be weird (and it seems like a
lot of others agree, given the existence of the fullthreads macro)--maybe
this combination of scores and turbo-plonk is as close as I can get to my
ideal setup.

Thank you for the clarifications, J.B.!
--
Benjamin Esham
https://esham.io
Lewis
2019-07-22 20:29:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Benjamin Esham
Post by J.B. Nicholson
Post by Benjamin Esham
I'm using slrn 1.0.2. I'd like to use the turbo-plonk script to
automatically killfile all of the articles that are anywhere
downthread of anyone I've killfiled. I downloaded the script from
[1], tweaked it to look for articles with score -9999 instead of
-666, and added the appropriate "interpret" line to my slrnrc. It
doesn't seem to be working, though... I see many instances where
someone's post is given a -9999 score by my scorefile but the
replies (by other people) to that post are not given a score.
Have you also changed the default kill score to be something other
than -9,999? By default -9999 means slrn will kill the article.
Every article gets a score; the score might be 0, as it would be by
default if you didn't score articles, but 0 is still a score.
Try making your magic article score something else, like -9998 or
leaving it as -666 and see if that works.
I may have misunderstood how I'm supposed to be using scoring. Almost all of
the entries in my scorefile set articles' scores to -9999 (which is my
kill_score, since I've left that configuration variable at its default
Setting the tuboplonk score to -9999 means that the script cannot see
the messages that you kill, so it cannot cache the message Ids to kill
followups. Pretty sure this was covered in the docs with the script,
though I don't see a readme now.
--
Is Mr Humphries available to help a man try on a dress?
Benjamin Esham
2019-07-22 20:58:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Benjamin Esham
Post by Benjamin Esham
I'm using slrn 1.0.2. I'd like to use the turbo-plonk script to
automatically killfile all of the articles that are anywhere downthread
of anyone I've killfiled. I downloaded the script from [1], tweaked it
to look for articles with score -9999 instead of -666, and added the
appropriate "interpret" line to my slrnrc. It doesn't seem to be
working, though... I see many instances where someone's post is given a
-9999 score by my scorefile but the replies (by other people) to that
post are not given a score.
Have you also changed the default kill score to be something other than
-9,999? By default -9999 means slrn will kill the article.
Every article gets a score; the score might be 0, as it would be by
default if you didn't score articles, but 0 is still a score.
Try making your magic article score something else, like -9998 or
leaving it as -666 and see if that works.
I may have misunderstood how I'm supposed to be using scoring. Almost all
of the entries in my scorefile set articles' scores to -9999 (which is my
kill_score, since I've left that configuration variable at its default
Setting the tuboplonk score to -9999 means that the script cannot see the
messages that you kill, so it cannot cache the message Ids to kill
followups. Pretty sure this was covered in the docs with the script,
though I don't see a readme now.
Ah, okay, that makes a lot of sense. It sounds like I should be fine as long
as my scorefile and turbo-plonk are set up to hand out scores that are
negative but greater than -9999.

(I'm not sure about the docs either... the script itself doesn't have any
inline documentation and the README.macros file on the slrn website doesn't
seem to include anything relevant.)

Thanks for the clarification.
--
Benjamin Esham
https://esham.io
Lewis
2019-07-23 01:01:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Benjamin Esham
Setting the tuboplonk score to -9999 means that the script cannot see the
messages that you kill, so it cannot cache the message Ids to kill
followups. Pretty sure this was covered in the docs with the script,
though I don't see a readme now.
Ah, okay, that makes a lot of sense. It sounds like I should be fine as long
as my scorefile and turbo-plonk are set up to hand out scores that are
negative but greater than -9999.
I use =-4321 as I find it easy to type.
--
The new Death raised his cowl. There was no face there. There was not
even a skull. Smoke curled formlessly between the robe and a golden
crown. Bill Door raised himself on his elbows. A CROWN? His voice
shook with rage. I NEVER WORE A CROWN! You never wanted to rule.
Jay
2019-11-08 18:08:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.B. Nicholson
Post by Benjamin Esham
I'm using slrn 1.0.2. I'd like to use the turbo-plonk script to
automatically killfile all of the articles that are anywhere
downthread of anyone I've killfiled. I downloaded the script from
[1], tweaked it to look for articles with score -9999 instead of
-666, and added the appropriate "interpret" line to my slrnrc. It
doesn't seem to be working, though... I see many instances where
someone's post is given a -9999 score by my scorefile but the
replies (by other people) to that post are not given a score.
Have you also changed the default kill score to be something other
than -9,999? By default -9999 means slrn will kill the article.
Every article gets a score; the score might be 0, as it would be by
default if you didn't score articles, but 0 is still a score.
Try making your magic article score something else, like -9998 or
leaving it as -666 and see if that works.
This behavior is so odd to me; it means you can't kill the parent article if you
want turbo-plonk to kill the follow-ups? Won't that mean that I'm only killing
the follow-ups and will still see the parent article?

How do I kill articles _and_ their follow-ups?
Lewis
2019-11-08 20:51:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jay
Post by J.B. Nicholson
Post by Benjamin Esham
I'm using slrn 1.0.2. I'd like to use the turbo-plonk script to
automatically killfile all of the articles that are anywhere
downthread of anyone I've killfiled. I downloaded the script from
[1], tweaked it to look for articles with score -9999 instead of
-666, and added the appropriate "interpret" line to my slrnrc. It
doesn't seem to be working, though... I see many instances where
someone's post is given a -9999 score by my scorefile but the
replies (by other people) to that post are not given a score.
Have you also changed the default kill score to be something other
than -9,999? By default -9999 means slrn will kill the article.
Every article gets a score; the score might be 0, as it would be by
default if you didn't score articles, but 0 is still a score.
Try making your magic article score something else, like -9998 or
leaving it as -666 and see if that works.
This behavior is so odd to me; it means you can't kill the parent article if you
want turbo-plonk to kill the follow-ups?
Yes, that's how it HAS to work. Killed articles aren't loaded, they are
killed entirely. The article you want to trubo-plonk can't be scroed at
-9999 because of this.
Post by Jay
Won't that mean that I'm only killing the follow-ups and will still
see the parent article?
Not unless you are in the habit or reading articles that are marked with
a negative score.
Post by Jay
How do I kill articles _and_ their follow-ups?
I never see the articles or follow-ups.
--
What we have here is a failure to communicate.
Jay
2019-11-08 22:18:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jay
This behavior is so odd to me; it means you can't kill the parent article if
you want turbo-plonk to kill the follow-ups?
Yes, that's how it HAS to work. Killed articles aren't loaded, they are killed
entirely. The article you want to trubo-plonk can't be scroed at -9999 because
of this.
Would it be possible to score the parent article _after_ the follow-up articles
are processed?
Post by Jay
Won't that mean that I'm only killing the follow-ups and will still see the
parent article?
Not unless you are in the habit or reading articles that are marked with a
negative score.
I am -- I don't consider scores binary (kill or not kill); I use scores above
-9999 as a variable indicator of quality
Post by Jay
How do I kill articles _and_ their follow-ups?
I never see the articles or follow-ups.
Don't the parent articles just have a score of -666, thereby not getting killed,
but only marked as read?
Jay
2019-11-08 22:26:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jay
Would it be possible to score the parent article _after_ the follow-up
articles are processed?
For instance, I added this after line 57 of turbo-plonk.sl:

if (Scorefile_Score == get_header_score ())
{
set_header_score (-9998);
}

But that doesn't seem to do what I'd expect it to.
Lewis
2019-11-09 14:43:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jay
Post by Jay
This behavior is so odd to me; it means you can't kill the parent article if
you want turbo-plonk to kill the follow-ups?
Yes, that's how it HAS to work. Killed articles aren't loaded, they are killed
entirely. The article you want to trubo-plonk can't be scroed at -9999 because
of this.
Would it be possible to score the parent article _after_ the follow-up articles
are processed?
How?
Post by Jay
Post by Jay
Won't that mean that I'm only killing the follow-ups and will still see the
parent article?
Not unless you are in the habit or reading articles that are marked with a
negative score.
I am -- I don't consider scores binary (kill or not kill); I use scores above
-9999 as a variable indicator of quality
Well, there's you're problem.

Scores under 0 = don't read, scores over 0 = read.

You have a 20,000 point range, surely you can use the scores as
intended.
Post by Jay
Post by Jay
How do I kill articles _and_ their follow-ups?
I never see the articles or follow-ups.
Don't the parent articles just have a score of -666, thereby not getting killed,
but only marked as read?
Same difference for me. I don't read articles that score under 0. Pretty
sure that is the intended behavior of the scoring system in slrn, since
anything under 0 is marked as read.

If it really bothers you, enter the group, exit the group, and reneter
the group. VOILA! All the negatively scored articles will be gone.
--
People only think for themselves if you tell them to.
Jay
2019-11-08 22:48:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jay
This behavior is so odd to me; it means you can't kill the parent article if
you want turbo-plonk to kill the follow-ups?
Yes, that's how it HAS to work. Killed articles aren't loaded, they are killed
entirely. The article you want to trubo-plonk can't be scroed at -9999 because
of this.
This macro kills any article with a score of -666 (or the scorefile number of
your choice) as well as killing any articles with its Message-ID in their
references,
This looks like it's saying it *should* kill the article with the -666 score, as
well, not just its follow-ups.
Lewis
2019-11-09 14:44:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jay
Post by Jay
This behavior is so odd to me; it means you can't kill the parent article if
you want turbo-plonk to kill the follow-ups?
Yes, that's how it HAS to work. Killed articles aren't loaded, they are killed
entirely. The article you want to trubo-plonk can't be scroed at -9999 because
of this.
This macro kills any article with a score of -666 (or the scorefile number of
your choice) as well as killing any articles with its Message-ID in their
references,
This looks like it's saying it *should* kill the article with the -666 score, as
well, not just its follow-ups.
And it does. You just have a different definition of kill.
--
Han : Not a bad bit of rescuing, huh? You know, sometimes I amaze even
myself. Leia: That doesn't sound too hard.
Jay
2019-11-09 15:43:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Jay
This looks like it's saying it *should* kill the article with the -666 score,
as well, not just its follow-ups.
And it does. You just have a different definition of kill.
"Marking as read" is not the same as "killing"
Lewis
2019-11-09 18:02:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jay
Post by Lewis
Post by Jay
This looks like it's saying it *should* kill the article with the -666 score,
as well, not just its follow-ups.
And it does. You just have a different definition of kill.
"Marking as read" is not the same as "killing"
As I said, you have a different definition of kill. For me, any article
auto-marked read is killed, and anyone with a negative score rule is in
my "killfile".
--
Everybody wants a rock to wrap a piece of string around
Jay
2019-11-13 16:54:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Jay
Post by Lewis
Post by Jay
This looks like it's saying it *should* kill the article with the -666
score, as well, not just its follow-ups.
And it does. You just have a different definition of kill.
"Marking as read" is not the same as "killing"
As I said, you have a different definition of kill. For me, any article
auto-marked read is killed, and anyone with a negative score rule is in my
"killfile".
I'm using slrn's definition of "kill" -- to "mark as read" is not to "kill".
This is why "kill_score" and "max_low_score" are different settings:

http://www.slrn.org/docs/slrn-manual-6.html

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